Tina, that's not the issue. We have strong teachers, we have a strong city. For the most part we have excellent teachers. Yes, they are worth what we pay them- its not about worth. Its about economics.

Unfortunately, we as a community cannot sustain the compensation as it is. Many residents over the last four years have lost their jobs and had to start over, many residents have had cuts in their pay and increases to their insurance, many residents have lost their homes in foreclosure and now rent, many residents have lost property value, many residents have lost parts of their own 401K and retirements and most of us in the Social Security system will never see any of the money we've put in to support it. And many of us had no say in this, we didn't get to strike and hold our employer hostage to meet our demands. We just lost our jobs or chose to take cut or furloughs to keep our jobs. We took increased costs in insurance to keep our job. So we as a community do not understand their stand on this.

Your interest is in your child - so in your opinion give them what they want so you can get what you want. Doesn't work that way. There are other interest at stake, such as those that own property and don't have children do not want to support something to be better off than they are. We have to find a balance. And a strike is not the way to do it. Especially when we have well paid teachers.

Gee, I work with very sick cancer patients who are very ill, and even some of them do not make it. I am not a doctor or nurse, but I do have an impact on their treatments while at our hospital. Gee, I think I am worth more than what they are paying, so therevfore I am worth every penny because I think I am entitled to it. BULL####. Better pay does not make better teachers. There are a lot of mothers teaching their children through homeschool and private school teachers out there that do a great job and majority of those kids are much better off when it comes to their education. They beat the public school children in most cases hands down. Get off your high horse and be realistic. There is no money and this is a new day. How stupid and insensitive you are, Tina. It is all about you and your kids, nothing else matters.

That's fine and dandy on paper but, in the real world, it has to be payed for. Sorry, I don't have anymore to give and I think many (not all) residents are in the same boat. The teachers make a very reasonable wage and benefits package (it's among the top 5% in the state)...even with the last best offer they voted down they would have still been very well compensated. It's really about greed at this point.

teachers would never go for it, they know the public will never support them

Teachers should have to pay for the costs of putting this on the ballot over and over and over...

sob sob they didn't even want sob sob a donut. thats horrible !!!! how can they miss their teachers ???? they see them every morning and every afternoon standing on the sidewalks

Kim L - And I thought the teachers were the insensitive animals. It's people like you that have crossed the line of decency. Unfortunately, the events of the past week have shown a light on people like you -- like cockroaches, we all see you scurry about.

candid the only animals in this discussion should be the ones that were screaming at the subs last sunday, there are your cockroaches

Jean - So, those actions give you carte blanche to do and say whatever you'd like about the teachers, even the vast majority who haven't done anything wrong? That to me is despicable. To keep using a few actions to justify your own.

candid there are some teachers who wanted no part of this strike.......and there are many teachers who took no part in that display a week ago...... that will forever be a stain on this city.....and until these "good" teachers do something to separate themselves from those that behaved like "animals" .... they are linked together as the same mob

Notgonna tellyou,
i understand your kids miss there teacher but quite frankly you should be telling your teachers, go and tell them that your kids miss and want them to come back also i would suggest that you start appreciating the teachers that have showed up and are now teaching your kids because they are the ones that are carring for kids i know this is hard but it seems like people who have young children cant dare to accept the new subs because they have the idea that there not really teachers but they are!!! encoureage your children to embace and learn from this new teacher because shes there and she cares!!! its time to start showing these courageous subs the respect they deserve!!! because there teachers as sad as it sounds are more interested in themselves right now and Not your children.

Not all students miss their teachers!

My kid misses her teacher also but, we can't just give in to whatever the SEA demands because of that. These issues are serious and I'm sorry but I have no more to give, especially after the 81 million bond issue passed. It's time for the teachers to suck it up and accept more concessions just like many others (including myself) have had to do over the last few years.

I am sure the kids get hurt more when mommy and daddy are forced to move to another city due to rising property tax rates that throw their houses into foreclosure, my child understands that their teacher cares more about money then children, and even made a thank you card to give to their new teacher friday

If some parents feel so strongly about seeing these teachers get more money, then maybe they should start a collection fund for these teachers. All of you who want to give them more - go ahead. Pool your money together and give it to them.

I agree. Kim needs a serious dose of Valium. Let's abuse individuals stating specific situations that have happened at there school. Nice!

I agree with everything you just posted!!! my earlier sarcasm was from another first time drive by poster (teacher) who tossed in a boo hoo woasme comment in
"My kids both said that they just want their teachers back... They didn't even want a donut."
who do they think is fooled by that comment

Kim = beautiful

C I am more afraid of the teachers on strike then the newly hired teachers, after watching those wild animals attack those substitute teachers sunday I do not want them anywhere near my children again, but I did notice how professional those newly hired teachers acted even with the angry mob screaming in their faces

Maybe there should be a look into the backgrounds of all 383 current teachers.

Who knows what DUI's, domestic violence, theft... charges might appear since a last background check was done on them.

I say if we are checking out these 150 subs- we should check out the other 383 NOW and post ANY findings, as they are public and wouldn't any parent want to know this info?

Kim - Get over yourself. What attack. Do I agree with the shouting? No. But, please stop perpetuating this myth that they were attacked, as if their lives were at stake. Please.

and the teachers OUTSIDE are mixed with the city hall animals and are not teaching since they are on strike

Do you have proof of this? WHere is the documentation? False accusations are a tricky situation. By the State BOE everyone in charge of a class or responsible for students has to PASS a background check. And every teacher hired has had a verification of licensure. That is able to be provided by the schools in which they are subbing. If a person was hired to supervise "study hall" they do not have to be a licensed teacher, but still has to have the background check (that would be the equivalent of many of the aides our schools).

How do you know that the subs are not certified. How do you know that they are not teaching. My child attends Strongsville and she has had work, homework and tests.
Our course it is not like it was before with their normal teachers but that is not the subs or the students fault. She actually is doing better in math as her sub has explained it better than her normal teacher.

Rich - Damn, that's a lot of cold showers.

That's the great thing about the Tea Party crowd. You can see them coming a mile away. I'm not a pretend parent. I'm a real parent. But, teachers in this town now know how it is to be a minority in this country. Those against teachers will say anything and not think twice about who they might be offending - their neighbors, their friends, it doesn't matter. When people won't let their kids play with other kids because their parents support the teachers, I think that saddest thing anyone here could do. And, by the way, I know that's happening.

Did you mean to say perhaps they should take a 10% cut also?

Lyn - What is it again that you do for a living? I believe this is the third time I've asked. It's important because you seem to know so much about the value of others and what they're worth. I'd like to know what value you bring? Besides your obvious contributions to the Patch. And, as always, please be specific.

Keep asking

The officers of the union are the exclusive bargaining agent for the union members. A member can choose to be "fair share" which is to pay dues and not be a member. they still benefit from whatever the union negotiates. If someone wants to cross the picket line they can, it does not mean they have accepted the last best offer - they cannot do that alone - only the negotiating committee and then a ratification by the membership does that. They are just not supporting the strike. A strike only has power if the majority participate. Hence the bullying.

A strike is allowed when there is no current contract in force. Most items in a contract stay in force 'roll over' until there is a new agreement EXCEPT: a strike clause, any clause that modifies a statutory right, or any clause that is dated to sunset/end on a specific date.

There will be and can be repercussions unless language or an agreement is made to obsolve them from it. Such as how it is written in the teacher's proposal. School systems are not "closed shops," so members can cross without repercussions from their employer per the contract - maybe the OEA may do something to them - but not the board.

If a member crosses the picket line after the strike has started they may suffer at the hands of the other members when the strike is over. Shunning etc are common in the past. Of course now the law and policies are all about anti bullying - so this should be interesting.

Lyn.... I must say, when you tell yourself enough lies, you really have started to actually believe them. There were absolutely NO racial slurs said, yelled, screams, whatever.... just keep making up what you want to believe, it's quite sad actually.

Candid It's not about the forest and the trees. I believe that collectively we as a group believe that teachers are paid a fair salary. Salary is not the issue. It's the benefits that we private sector folks can't deal with. Basically free retirement and their ridiculous health care package compared to private sector employees is what ticks us off. Beyond that the tenurde deal has to go. Teachers need to learn to earn their right to keep their job from year to year. I have 2 kids in the school and the difference in teaching ability is absolute night and day. Just because you have a job doesn't mean it's your in perpetuity; unless you're a teacher!!!!

Rich - The SEA is willing to include language that allows for underperforming teachers to be terminated, regardless of tenure. I agree. I have always believed it's the bad teachers that have made it harder for the public to accept tenure. But, there must be reasonable way to rate teachers so as not to throw good ones out with the bad. It can't just be based on test scores as the best teachers tend to take on the more challenging students. With respect to health care, I believe the union is willing to move those "free retirement" dollars to their salary. So, there are two issues that union is willing to compromise on and yet it's the teachers who are made to look like the unwilling partner in all of this. Negotiation and compromise is a two-way street. It's time for the BOE to step up.

WOW. Extremism....I grew up in the 1960s and SUFFERED all of that. But yet I turned out to be a successful adult; as did most everyone I know. Yes, way back when before the teachers union existed teachers were underpaid. I agree. I do not want to go back to that time, but today, March of 2013, teachers are well paid. I cannot see anyone wanting to go back to 1963 pay scale nor is anyone asking to. What the community is ask for is...Just hold the scale we have back a little - just like most everyone else has had to do over the last 4 years in every other profession. We have a pay scale and compensation that is in the top of the group for public school teachers in Ohio. They would have to drop a whole lot before we'd see the situation of the 1960's. Apparently, we have learned from history and have gone 180 degrees in the other direction until teachers are now overpaid to the point that the community cannot support the compensation package.

Really, would it matter anyway....I turned out just fine ... in my overcrowded classroom taught by a dedicated teacher who was underpaid. I'm not saying we need to return to that - I'm saying you need to stop sensationalizing and exaggerating to scare people into paying you more with money they don't have.

Elsie - No, most of the anti-teacher element here wants all new teachers. Young teachers. Teachers that would make the starting wage. And then, no increases because apparantly these teachers will be hungrier and work harder and never ask for anything more. I only use this as example of what existed prior to the system that is in place. Is it perfect (i.e. tenure security for underperforming teachers)? No. But, if we do what most on here want, that's the kind of reality we'll be heading towards.

Candid, Not everyone is looking to fire all the teachers and hire younger ones. I'm not to me that isn't feasible or even practical. Your article from the 1960's is not relevant today. There is a overabundance of teachers looking for jobs, teachers who have spent a lot of money on loans who now can't get a job. Personnally, if the retirement situation that STRS has planned does happen many will retire in the next few years allowing for jobs for those who are waiting. I think we have plenty available to prevent the past from reoccuring. The training and state requirements are stricter now and there appears to be an evaluation process in motion already. Teaching in Strongsville is a good job. I have compared salaries of other districts to Strongsville's and it is more than fair - they are at the high end in fact. Simply put they are not underpaid and the schools are not overcrowed.

From what I have read and know we are headed for something better that is much different that what we are used to. Change is hard. I want to keep the teachers we have and move forward with the new mandates from the state.

The pay part is basically economics. The community just doesn't have the funds to raise taxes. Therefore the school system and the teachers have to live within the means that we provide. It's that simple. The board finally gets it - the teachers do not. So we have a strike at the expense of the community and students. Sad.

The teachers do not need your respect to do the same amazing job they have been doing for years

Lyn - I don't teach. It was a simple Google search. So, do you deny the teacher shortage in the 1960's?

Agreed that their actions were reprehensible. Whoever is giving them advice isn't helping them win the PR war, which at this point is almost as important as the reason for the strike. I do take exception to your use of the term "so-called." They are not "so-called" highly qualified professionals. They are certified highly qualified professionals.

Having classes of 20 or less would be great.
But, then you need to hire more teachers - but there is no money.
Or, cut some noncore classes - means hurting the kids and cutting come newer teachers just so those older teachers demands could be met.
Also, we don't have a drop out problem here like you mention - its not as extreme a problem here.

As it is, the teachers say they have to buy books and supplies for the kids because the school doesn't have the funds for even those.

So, if the teachers realize there is no money for the kids, why do they think there is money for them?

CA-

Your points are all well and good as I feel you bring up some valid points. However, you have to understand that the BOE is refusing to move on ANYTHING. The SEA will not get everything they ask for... No one in negotiations ever do. But the BOE wants EVERYTHING they are asking for.... No negotiating on their side whatsoever. So while it would be great to find middle ground, the BOE, mainly Frazee and the lawyer, don't seem to get it.

But over the next many years, the enrollment is projected to decrease by about 1000 students - so the class size may decrease naturally - as some are already smaller. It is mainly a problem in some of those grades that got combined when they closed a school.

But, remember, when enrollment declines - so will some funding that we get.

"We institute class size maximums of 20." and who pays for the extra teachers needed to do this ......your idea might be noble ...BUT THE SCHOOLS HAVE NO MONEY....... at Muraski alone you have 496 kids enrolled with 20 teachers to go to this max 20 idea (from a 2007 study dreamed up to get more teachers hired) you would to need to hire 6 more teachers ...............that is about 48 more teachers needed district wide ....

Tom-

The claim that the school board "has no money" is completely and utterly false. Number provided to the SEA by the boards own treasurer show that over the last 3 years, the BOE has had a surplus of around 4 million dollars..... FOUR MILLION DOLLARS. 2.5 million was last year alone. No money?? There is more money than the BOE wants you to believe.

SHADY LADY-
What figures do you have?
You can't just make a blanket statement backed with only emotion - present your own numbers or hire an independent accounting firm to review the BOE's numbers.

Lyn - I have SEEN the numbers provided to the SEA by the BOE.... They are not made up or "backed by emotion". Facts are facts.... That's alls to it

Yes, in big city districts all that you mention is an issue. But not here. We do not have poor students without parental support. We do not have 40 to 50 in a class at best there are a few with 30 - 35 at the high school. Strongsville has a very low drop out rate. College will be no different with class sizes in lecture halls. It will prepare them for college. I agree in lower grades it is better to have smaller classes, but not always. Back in the early 1990s' the Strongsville Schools had some classrooms with 30 and more in an elementary classroom. My child was in one of these groups in which their class was always large. In kindergarten and grade 1 they got an aide to help the teacher as there were over 30 students in the room. They graduated from SHS, is healthy and graduated from college with honors. I will admit it was a strain on their teachers, who got much support from the parents. It is not the best way but sometimes the only way. You cannot just make an arbitrary number for class size. What if 45 students sign up for grade 1 is that 2 teachers with 23 and 22 students or 3 teachers with 15 students? Each teacher at an average salary of 66,000 plus benefits has to cost the district close to 100,000 each / times 13 years. Its a nice idea that we cannot afford.

Like I said - prepare your own projections based on the same criteria that the district uses. We have all seen the numbers - its on the website, all one has to do is look. So, if you think they pull those numbers out of the air, you are wrong. That is why you need to hire an independent public accountant to review them. Why do you have such a problem with that? The SEC and shareholders accept their qualifications, why won't you? Or is it easier to keep saying the numbers are wrong with no proof?

Lyn, Elsie, and a couple others your answers are bs. Either you are or aren't for high quality EVIDENCE BASED education. If its TRULY about the kids you can't argue, but you do. I offered a solution that was going to impact the teachers and the citizens. Pass a levy if you don't think you'll be able to afford 20 per classroom. Your salary and benefits will be what the boe is offering. Why would you not support? Because its not about the kids to you. Be a parent and a resident like me and be honest with yourselves or on here.

Community Advocate - why can't you deal with the fact that everyone hates your idea? Stop trying to weasel it into every conversation. PS...If you use ALL CAPS to stress your important points, everyone will buy into it...i promise! Good luck with your door-to-door encyclopedia britannica sales job.

Candid,
I am always about the students and community. Always. I am a parent, a former PTA officer, an avid volunteer, and a tax payer. I support this community and its schools but on this even I have to say no more. They have enough. Evidenced based education - based on big city schools with lots of other issues. Also, it is proven that smaller classes is only effective as an improvement in clases with discipline issues. Special Ed classes need to be small in Strongsville we don't have the issues that Cleveland has. In Cleveland, yes, small class sizes is imperative. Our kids for the most part behave. Think Catholic schools - they only used to take kids who behave so the class sizes were larger and the kids got a great education even if there were 30 or 40 in a class. small class size does not always equals success. There are many other factors to consider when looking at student achievement.

Lyn is correct. The population of Strongsville is changing. There will be less students in the near future so many less that closing buildings will have to happen. We don't need more teachers, we need to teach more efficiently with the ones we have.

Lyn - no reprisal clauses are written into every contract when there is a labor dispute. This is common practice. But I wouldn't expect you to know facts that are against your own beliefs.

Tell me what page it was on in your last contract - that one that took 8 months to negotiate 2 years ago.

Let me clarify, since you obviously can't put two and two together... The no reprisal clause is obviously not needed if no strike occurs. Once a side determines to strike, the no reprisal clause is added... Once again... This is common practice.

Lyn, that is exactly what it means. They anticipated the strike and want bad acts forgiven. They have to know there has to be a anti-bullying policy in the districts employee policies. There should be no free pass given on this. Illegal behavior, behavior in violation of board policy (that they are fully aware of) and behavior unbecoming a teacher should not be ignored. Most of the strikers that I see are following the rules, it is a loud minority that are making them look bad. I agree most people could not get away with the behavior that has been recorded.

Oh - I get it -so you can have a free pass to do whatever you want .

HOWEVER -That agreement would be with the BOE if they agree -which I hope they do not.

But, it is not with the police department or even private citizens who might file a claim against one or many or all.

I wonder if there is such a thing as a class action suit that can be brought against the teachers by members of the community or parents if the BOE caves and puts that clause in. Now THAT would be interesting.

Lyn - now that would be interesting..... But why? Because they have not been any nor will there be any actions by peaceful striking teachers that will warrant any types of charges... That's why.

Elsie-
Are there certain ethics rules and guidelines that teachers have to abide by? I know in most professions, and I don't know if teachers would be excluded from this, they must conduct themselves in a certain manner or else there are certain penalties that follow - even to the point of yanking a license.

Maybe that's what you meant by the OEA taking action against them - but if they are directing their actions, why would they.

The anti-bulling policy should still be strictly enforced - since that is not tolerated in the schools.

Yes, Ohio Revised Code has specific rules for teachers and they can loose their license - some of this behavior could be deemed menacing - a felony. Some appear to have threatened people. Some behavior is teetering right up to illegal. Of course they have to be caught and arrested. Teachers have to pass background checks - if they have a felony that is on the list then they loose their license.

SHADY LADY-
So, here's what I see-
You have a c/o of funds to help pay for expenditures that will be exceeding the revenues that they anticipate - good thing.
You have a problem with them managing money well and even possibly putting off some expenditures to following years, resulting in a better bottom line.
I also wondered where that money came from all of a sudden back when they were changing the levy amount. But, are faulting them for also being could at handling expenses as they are faced with them during the year they are in? You know estimates are just that - estimates.

should read-
But, are we faulting them for also being good at handling expenses as they are faced with them during the year that they are in?

Lyn Shady (Tracy) why is it when you have been on the news you keep insisting they have 2 million dollars and now it's gone up to 4 million just a few days later?

please see my post right above yours... i still like the idea of an independent auditor... I don;t believe it is allowed. I NEVER claimed the projections for this upcoming year were wrong... but, as always, you twist words to make them fit your own personal agenda. What I DID say was that how can you trust "reliable projections" when they have been way off for far too long.... get a clue

Tad-
Your idea was an excellent one that many of us on here agree with.
But I don't think still many have looked at the financials - maybe because they don't know how to read them. Which, I can understand - not everyone can.

You act like this is the first strike in history of schools districts....

The reason a class action suit has not been filed against striking teachers ever is because the judge would simply laugh and ask you to leave. As a union, they have a right to strike.... what do you not get about having the right to do something? Just as you have the right to sit on your butt all day and make up what you want on the Pacth.

Ohio has has very few strikes in the past decade, and you know it
.
And this would be something totally different. It would be a class action suit brought on by the community, parents and students against the teachers. I'm really liking the idea of this. And, some attorney might just go for the chance - and we'd have plenty of political backing for it.

Lyn - When you're ready to waste some money, I know a great attorney you could use.

Tad,

Then why ISN'T the BOE being questioned or held accountable?? Why is all the negativity thrown at the teachers? And, no one ever claimed that money should all go to the teachers... but, to say that there is NO money, is just a flat out lie/misconception.

Tad-
Yes, I'd like to go back and say what date to buy and sell shares of Apple.

I agree... a 3rd party auditor may be the way to go. It would certainly help bring balance to the situation.

As I said, I am not claiming the projections are wrong... all I am stating is that when you have been proven to be wrong over the course of the last few years, why should you be trusted with your current analysis? When the BOE is "projecting" they will have to lay off 25+ teachers over the next few years based on these projections, you may make people start to question how reliable any of these projections are.

You can;t blame the SEA for being upset about that, can you? Especially if there is no way of challenging their projections.

Do you know for a fact that you can't hire an outside firm to review the numbers?
And, as the state auditor has issued a clean report after reviewing 2012 - why are you still doubting the financials, which include projections for future years?

Tad-
I have done MANY cash projections for companies, and guess what? They never came in exactly the same as actual numbers. Why? Not because I was inept or using wrong numbers to base my calculations on, but because too many variables happen throughout the year. That is why they are called estimates.
Watch HCTV - those programs when they say its going to be "x" amount for a remodel. Once they start ripping out walls, they find unexpected problems. That now changes the total cost of the project,

Lyn -

yes, we all know what projections and estimates are... thank you. Howver, do you honestly feel that being off by almost 2.5 million dollars last year alone is acceptable??? If it were say 100,000 or so, then yes.... we get it... but 2.5 million??? Come on... you can't be as blind as you are pretending to be.

meant necessary, not unnecessary

Tracy- whom to believe? BOE or "taacher's" SEA?. No brainer, BOE. One of the highest paid districts in Ohio out of 616? Not anymore Tracy. Hope you working off all that KFC you inhaled this past week. You are noticeably huffing and puffing on that picket line. Ps Walmart is hiring. At least the ex teachers that don't get hired back will have a place to go. They will fit in with the Walmart people.

Burden of proof on the SEA? Really? The burden of proof is on the BOE. They are the ones that are supposed to be the stewards of our money. Not to mention, they have consistently been way wrong in their projections.

Agreed.

You can't just keep saying its wrong without proof. And the proof isn't that estimates in the past are wrong. You have to disprove the estimates and the way they were performed. Of courses estimates will not come in exact.

Over 16 million in projection errors over 2 years?? And yet we should trust their upcoming projections?? No one in their right mind would trust anything coming from the BOE's treasurer.

those projections were based on IF the last levy failed which it did not so those numbers do not apply

James - you are wrong... these are the actually numbers, not taking ANY levy into account... estimates and projections are not based on levy's that ay or may not pass... get a clue.

SHADY-
You say that is $16 million - But not really.
Those figures are cumulative, from year to year.
The $2,535,361 IS cumulative and does already represent c/o of $542,420 from 2011. Revenue over exp. was $2 million for 2012.

lyn - incorrect... they are not cumulative... they are yearly projections.

wrong again

Where do you get these projected figures?
When I look at the June, 2011 financials - It has the projection for FY 2012 as being $2.5million deficit - not $7million

lyn, as I continue to repeat the same answer over and over... those numbers were provided directly from the BOE treasurer.... how many more times do I need to say it before it sinks in?

EXCUSE ME! I just read your response.
But if YOU look at the actual number that are on the schools website, and those financials are for all to see, you will see that the ARE cumulative. You will also see the numbers that are projected for the following year are not the same. So, I guess the BOE gives one number to the SEA and tells the world something else?

ITS ONLINE - LOOK!
And, if you have something to show that the BOE provided different numbers, do it.
But the BOE provided other numbers to the world online!!!

Or why not have "pay to Play" or threaten to cut bussing... or cut classes or programs or field trips or put it towards the new middle school.... ANY OF THAT WOULD BE ACCEPTABLE.

But you just want to focus it around the teacher's pay.... as always... hear what you want to hear... as long as it fits your own agenda, Lyn.

Teachers hold signs that say "WE'RE WORTH IT" - that means money.

Teachers admit not enough funds for kids books and supplies so the teachers say they have to buy them.
But, that's okay - right? Because you think the schools are there to first take care of the teachers. Not the kids books. You have no problem making them pay-to-play or cutting some classes, just as long as the older teachers get their increases at the kids expense and even if it means having to cut some newer teachers to get it too.

I absolutely have a problem with the BOE not spending on books, supplies, pay to play, bussing, etc...

The Teachers do not decide where any of this money goes... never have and never will... yet, you point fingers at Teachers, not the BOE, when it is THEIR mishandling of funds that should be to blame.

NO - if the money is not there for the kids, why do you think it is there for the teachers?

yup, they are all thugs.... running around the community with bats and knives and torches... destroying everything in sight... causing all kinds of chaos. Get a freaking clue

Lyn, Y'all act like a bunch of bullies / thugs, or like a bunch of 3 year olds throwing a fit cause you didnt get your way. The exact opposite of what we want our children taught.
Fire all the teachers, we'll take our chances with the subs.

See Dave... that's just it. You are WILLING to take a chance with the subs.... Teachers are not... they know they are the REAL educators who have made this community excellent with dinstinction

Lyn, they are actual numbers provided to the SEA by the BOE.... they are end of the year numbers and projections. I would give you the link to where it is posted, but you would then proclaim to say the site is run by the SEA and therefore they are made up.

I have seen the ACTUAL documentation given to the SEA, the numbers are real

I like (NOT) how people just throw out numbers but they are not willing to back them up.
I'm not saying you need to show me the SEA info. Just tell me where it says the BOE says these numbers that you keep quoting they said. I find the info they supply in the financials as the projections for these same years and they are way off. I assumed you did have something to provide, but I didn't expect that comeback. Why would I want the SEA provided? You were quoting the BOE - so just provide the link form where it states this info.

I had a job, but it is of no use to me as I am not retired as you remain as indentured slave. I think thousands of workers would disagree with you that I have not had a "solution," as I have either directly created jobs for them or gutted and restructured their companies to allow them to remain employed. But please...don't let me interrupt your sales job of repeating your idea to everyone as it continues to fall on deaf ears. Wait, someone's writing another comment...this could be your chance to tell them about your killer idea again!!!

Thanks Emmett. Obviously, the bond issue passed and that will alter things going forward. But, two things jump out at me. First, there seems to be a correllation between taxes and high-performing school districts. You get what you pay for. Second, sitting in the bottom third, it looks like we get quite a bang for our buck all things considered.

Emmett you forgot one amount
average teachers pay $64000 divide by 184 days equals 348 per day
so 250 strikers not getting paid or 250 X $347/day x 5 days =$433,750 for the week
with the other striking support staff (130 employees) also on strike and no insurance payments the district has 1 million a week to pay for replacements

I thought things were "business as usual." The rec programs can't use the schools for rec sports practices. The tracks are closed for those who like to run. Why is this extending past the school and the normal school day? Seems to me the Huffmaster security detail should be able to handle a rec basketball game or two. Sure would be more interesting than just walking around in an empty parking lot all weekend long.

See the financial impact so far:
www,SEAStrike2013.com

Two more weeks and we can give the teachers that they want!

What other indutries bring in a substitute worker for a day out! Again, to explain this, and this is not uncommon in any district, a substitute on a non-strike basis, makes 85 dollars a day. SO if a teacher misses 3 days a quarter it costs the district 255 dollars. Now the average teacher, who has kids and other situations, that most americans have will miss a day a quarter if not more. SO in the end it is an incentive to save the schools money. If you do a public records request, i think you will see that the bonus is hardly paid out, as most teachers from elementary to middle school are mothers and are the ones who will miss when a child gets sick! FOr the male teachers it is a toss up. BUT AGAIN, comparing this to other industries is a moot point because no other industries will hire a substitute worker for a day!

And don't forget that they can cash in a hunk of their unused sick days when they retire at the current rate. How many of you get bankable sick days?

John, I am not sure if you know this or not, but with the upcoming changes to the STRS, the amount of "Cashed In" sick days is going to be reduced! I acknowledge that this is unique to public sector jobs, but is NOT unique to teachers only. Plus it almost becomes impossible to use up all sick days at the end of a career....even the ones that wont be paid out go unused! I can tell you that prior to the strike i have never missed a day of work...not because of the 200 dollars, but as a hard working teacher, it is really a hassle!! I amso have no kids, which makes it easier to not use them!!

John,

I am so far away from retirement i am sure this will change more than the presidents approval rating, so if i am wrong it is because i have not even begun to think about retiring....lol!!

In Layman's terms:
Normal Teacher = complacent, fat and happy
Every other Teacher = hungry, driven

ok

I didn't mean fat in the literal sense when i used the term "fat and happy" but knew someone would take it that way.

Also, being in shape is certainly a good thing. But not meeting the HT/WT standards IAW AR 600-9 does not make you non-deployable. Just my 2 cents. HOOAH!

OK....now that is funny and very true!!!

I cannot tell you the PT Drill memories that conjures up!!

how many periods do the students have 7 or 8 ??

students at the High School have 8 periods....Students at the Middle School have 12 periods!

For more clarification....High School Periods are 48 minutes, middle school periods are 40 minutes!

ok so teachers under this SEA plan would have 5 classes and 2 planning periods that is 7 and the high school has 8 where is the other missing period

Lunch Period....which would not be a change in contract so it is not part of the negotiations!

And since the planning period is for student help and assistance it could be easily checked by an administrator who could make sure that the period was being used effectively and be worked into the teachers evaluation, which is also part of this contract. I want to repeat....the second planning period would be used TO HELP STUDENTS and WILL ONLY BENEFIT the sutdents acasdemically if they want the help!

so if teachers workday is 7.5 hours high school so 5 classes and 2 planning periods at 55 minutes each that is 6 hours and 45 minutes so is the lunch period paid

Army
so if teachers workday is 7.5 hours at high school so 5 classes and 2 planning periods at 55 minutes each that is 6 hours and 45 minutes so is the teachers lunch period paid

I believe it is....since there is no clock in/clock out procedure! I am not a High School teacher, BUT lunch periods are split into 2 halves (This is to accomodate the amount of students who need to eat) so lets say period 4A and 4B...it is expected, at the high school, that teachers also eat during the half period of lunch and use the other half for work...as it is the only time some students have a study hall....not sure if this is followed by all teachers, but since the principal is on the negotiations team i would assume it is close. I also know at the middle school, lunch is a half an hour. ALso remember, the 55 minute figure is from bell to bell...periods are 48 minutes and there is 4 minutes travel time for the students to get from class to class.

Army Teacher-
And I'd like to thank you for your service!

I'm glad you are talking about this.
I asked yesterday about the planning period, but no one would answer me.
I was very surprised when Tracy said in her interview that you guys no longer have planning periods - that they are now used for other duties. When the radio interviewer (Bruce?) said it back, and she agreed, I was taken bothered by that because I believe a teacher does need at least 1 planning period. Can you confirm that is true - now all planning periods are for other duties? I was under the impression that there was still 1 planning period left for its intended use. If its not, I am in total agreement it should be reinstated.

Lyn,

I again appreciate the words for my service to the country...it is good to hear. I am new to the board here....so i didn't see your thread. On the interview with Bill Wills Tracey stated that ONE planning period was taken away and replaced with a duty. That leaves a teacher with ONE planning period right now, ONE duty right now, and ONE lunch right now...which can be turned into a lunch/planning period at the high school, as per my previous post. The second planning period was negotiated OUT of the last contract and turned into a duty. At the middle school you have ONE duty, ONE planning period, and ONE team period which is used to plan the week and is also used to conference with parents of students, the guidance department, and principals. AGAIN, as written in the contract, if restored the second planning period would be used for the SOLE PURPOSE of helping students. A smart administrator could monitor that it is being used as such easily, and again under the new evaluation system being put into place by the state of ohio, could be accounted for in a teachers evaluation. If you have any other questions let me know, and as i said in an earlier post...I have fought to protect the freedom of speech and i may not always agree with the comments i have read from you lyn, but i respect them because it is your right!

ok so that means that if no students need help that would leave some high school teachers with 5 classes 2 paid planning periods which they are free to determine how to use it if no students require help and a paid lunch

so that is now a 5 hour work day with 3 paid rest periods

That is one way to look at it....yes...BUT planning periods are used to grade papers, plan lessons, contach parents, attend IEP meetings, attend principal meetings, and any other work related things that pop up. In the spirit of honesty, which i promised, i am sure that there are some times where some teachers abuse the periods....this is something that can be stopped under the new evaluation process where an ineffective teacher can be RIF'd or fired more readily, but i can also say that these periods are used as they are intended by a large majority of the teachers. It is no different than an office worker who spends 30 minutes on espn checking brackets....we want to believe that all time is used effectively....but in ANY walk of life the system can be abused! As a dedicated teacher, and former soldier, it really eats at me when this is not followed...as it would if i was in the private sector and saw a coworker making the same abuses!

and Army in the real world (WE) white collar workers being salaried professionals, are EXEMPT from overtime work rules and are expected to take our work home, to work on a presentation or finish up a report (sounds like planning time)
so I should now tell my company to now reduce my workload, so I have paid presentation planning time at work

Army after reading your posts it is clear that when the residents are screaming fire the teachers.... you and others like you should not think that you are included in the taxpayers anger

I can agree with that tom!!!! yes Army you are one of strongsvilles best and brightest who seem to be stuck in the middle

Now Kim, I look at your real world comment and want to make sure this doesnt start turning into insults. Teaching does not take place in a fantasy land...so it is real world...and myself, and fellow colleagues, also take our work home. Having a Father that is a vice president of his company, i know that the private sector(In replace of real world) does take home work...which is why i will never make the arguement of grading at home and the like. BUT i also know that the people in the private sector do not work all 8-12 hours of the day they work...at times yes....but i could make the arguement of the MANY days i have worked from 730 to 530 to make sure all my work was done...also forgoing lunch....and many teachers can make the same arguement. To really reference the real world...when i was stationed in iraq....we could be in the middle of a battlefield and there was still downtime....even with our lives at stake...it didnt get more real world than that!! I see where your arguement is made, but there are alot of generalizations there too!! Grading, lesson planning, contacting parents, meetings all have their real world counterparts....it is all part of the day and calling them rest periods is a but misleading

Thank you for the kind words....i assure you there are many teachers like me...and unfirtunatly some that are not!! I dislike those as much as you and hopefully the new evaluation system weeds them out...BUT there are those employees in any walk of life that make the hard workers go unnoticed...and i also want to acknowledge that i am a slow typer.....so my previous post sort of covered this...and i want to make sure that i again was not disrespectful to anyone in my post....i want to avoid negativity....which is why i did not comment on the other threads that have started

Maybe Myron could help....you could count each of his multiple personalities as a counter-protester: myron, bernie and doris (his female personality).

Out on the corner again? Let us know how that works out for you.

Why are you supposedley intelligent people surprised that there is no picketing on the weekend. You do know that the schools are closed, right? I passed by that corner four times today and so no one. You must be holding an invisible demonstration.

You too....and unfortunately the freedom of speech allows some people to make personal attacks as a means of avoiding admitting they have to counter arguement....as long as i am on the board this will not be the case in my posts!! Have a great evening....and enjoy your week!

emmett so thats what you figured out between the 38 page BOE version and the 108 page SEA version
and this is taxpayer vs teachers the teachers pay is fine but the perks need to be hauled back in until the economy improves again and home prices stop dropping

except on friday when all the support they could scrape up is 1/2 the teachers some of the spouses a hand full of their kids and 2 people who came from elyria just to meet the ex governor

Quick Challenge....if you are a teacher you should be able to answer these questions without hesitation. What is an SLO and how will it be determined in the Strongsville City School System. AND what company used to provide our gradebook and what company currently provides it.....i think you are either NOT a teacher or being over dramatic....just want to keep things honest!

yes you are correct ....do not cross...you will still have to work with many of the teachers after the strike ends but.this is not even close to running its route ....usually a negotiation asks for 8 gum balls to get 4 but this time the SEA is asking for 20 gum balls and expects 18

You were an encouraging face to see today (I think this was you). Thank you again for being candid and open with us. I thought that took guts since we were holding signs against the teachers. I do hope that you are able to rally a group of teachers who feel the same way as you. I think everyone would me up in saying that it would be a courageous act that would show many of the parents who is truly there for the students.

4taxpayers.com

no response to questions that ANY teacher in strongsville could answer....she is not a teacher!!

after rereading your post....you are definately not a teacher...the vote to strike did NOT go down that way.....it was totaly anonymous....a yes no vote....no names given or recorded!! Votes were counted and it was NOT announced as unanimous....so try again....I will be honest when i post....i hope others are....

Army,

Thank you for your service, I dont dont dont your profession, you are free to doubt mine( Thats what you and other fight for). I am not on hear to debate people, The damage that this has caused in the city I live in and raise my children saddens me.

Sorry "dont doubt"

Goodnight

Army,

Then sir you were not at the same vote I was at as it was announced "Unanimous" and there was no reading of numbers of "yes" and no" and they were definatley writing names down that voted No. Perhaps in the army you are used to these tactics. I and many like me are not. I any case Thank you again for your service

Linda-
You really need to grow up. Not one of your posts has had just ONE with any comment about the topic at hand. In fact, you would think that "lyn" was the topic as you first came on to JUST comer on here to comment on me and still continue to , day in and day oyut - what an obsession you have!
Brush up on your reading comprehension skills for when I gave that quote - I summarized someone elses very untactful description of teachers after others comments, and said so.

Jennifer-
Thank you.
I just wish more people would concentrate on the facts instead of emotions. But, I guess if the facts and figures disprove their demands, throwing tantrums and misbehaving like children is all that's left.
They are very good at going on and on about things that don't reconcile with reality just because they have demands, but refuse to ever answer any other posters question of
-how specifically they are not being treated fairly by the BOE, or
-what are the terrible working conditions.
It has gotten so bad that the posters I originally assumed were kids turned out to be teachers - since my original assumptions were based on their comments, which appeared to be written by just a kid mouthing off because they want it now and giving no logical reason why, other than they are entitled to it.

Lyn you owe Jennifer a dollar (todays going rate for compliments)

but Jennifer does still get 1 hour of compliment planning every day

now you do know if she insults you, you will be able to get 184 days of insult pay

My next proposal will allow for 186 days!!!!
If I cry, I may need a few sick days - at least if I need more than 15 I'll just dip into my bucket of accumulated days and use those.

Oh no!
I just realized if I use some sick days I won't get that $200 bonus for the quarter just for showing up everyday for work!