just to be clear I did not pick this one teacher out just because of the "HIGH" salary there is over 150 other Strongsville teachers making between 78,000.00 and 81,000.00 per 9 months work

And, hasn't the district been paying the teachers 10% pension contribution for them? So, add 10% to that salary for a more realistic figure of what they are paid.
I'm sure the board was shaking in their boots when they marched in.
But, I hope the board remembers they work for the taxpayers and for the benefit of the students - not the teachers. When a private company encounters tough times, its the employees who are first to feel the pain. So, schools should be no different.

I'm betting you don't know a single teacher, because your assumptions are way off. Teachers don't just work the classroom hours (the 7.5 hours/day figure) during the work week; they also spend plenty of hours preparing for classes, grading papers, doing required paperwork, meeting with parents, responding to parents via calls/e-mails, etc. It is not an easy job.

You also float the $80,000 figure as though it is a typical teacher salary. I happen to have a good friend who has taught in a local school district for several years, and his salary is a little more than half of the figure you quote. That $80,000 number would be for a senior teacher with 20+ years in the classroom. That's really not that much money; compare that salary to professionals in other fields with advanced degrees and similar experience.

That's the problem with a site like Buckeye Institute. Self-appointed watchdogs can access the data and mis-interpret it to fit their own agendas. But yeah, keep pinning society's problems on those eeeevil teachers and their limitless greed.

john that means Strongsville has over 150 "senior" teachers all making 80,000 + a year, what I do find funny is anytime teachers salaries are brought up, somebody always seems to post about a "friend" they know who only makes 1/2 that amount

Actually, Jean, it means that Strongsville schools have 150 employees total making $80,000 per year -- including principals, assistant principals, counselors, etc. (That's assuming the data reflects just salary, and I have my doubts.)

As for the $40,000 comment: I'm not going to post his name here, but yes, I do have a friend who has taught in a local school system for about 6-7 years, and he is now in the upper $40,000 range. Believe it, don't believe it, I don't care. I know the truth.

Anyway, if you have a problem living in a school district that likes to hire and retain good teachers, maybe you should move. If you'd like to live in a community that constantly votes down school levies and keeps expenses down, perhaps you should try my childhood town of Parma. Voting no on all those levies has increased property values, attracted better educated and more affluent families, and made the city a shining beacon admired by all. Oh wait, that's right, the exact opposite happened. The city went in the toilet, thanks to selfish people who grumbled (just like you) at every turn about how those damn schools kept wasting what money they had.

no John I left the principals, assistant principals, counselors, etc. out of that 80,000 figure since they make more, and my complaint is not the salary amount it is the "freebies " that we the taxpayers have to pickup in addition to their salaries

its always good to see yet another post about someones "friend" --------- but yes, I do have a friend who has taught in a local school system for about 6-7 years, and he is now in the upper $40,000 range

Nick are you saying that this site is incorrect

http://buckeyeinstitute.org/teacher-salary

Yeah, buckeye institute is definitely not accurate. I was just looking at the payroll from my old district; they still list the high school principal from when I was there, and he left the district years ago.

Brian you are a teacher and you cannot use the filters in the search feature to exclude previous years ..............that speaks volumes

No I'm not a teacher. The example I was using was Brian Wilch who used to be the principal of Brecksville-Broadview Heights High School. You can go ahead and look it up on buckeye institute site. They claim he was receiving a salary every year from 2004 to 2011. However, per this article (http://blog.cleveland.com/suncourier/2009/07/brian_wilch_ready_to_leave_bre.html) you can see that he clearly opted out of his contract in 2009.

its good that Tina has a mommy who still fights her battles for her ..............news scoop Tina your daughter works for me, and your daughter needs to contribute her fair share, I have yet to see one teacher ever post why they think they deserve a pay increase in a down economy

Kathy you wrote "25 students X $2.00 an hour for ummmm babysitting = that's $100 an hour X 6 = $600 daily"
it is simple math 25 students X $2.00 an hour IS $50.00 an hour x 6 + $300 daily x 184 days = $55,000.00 DEAL thanks for the new teachers contract
and your a teacher ?????

again I will answer that question on which occupations deserve to make more than teachers.
all police and firefighters all nurses and EMS.
Melissa how about lets just make the benefit packages and how much all these occupations contribute to their healthcare and retirement packages all be the same.

Melissa there is a term "spelling nazi" look it up and see if YOUR picture is next to it

Greeeeowwww!

Kenneth I will answer that in terms that you should be able to understand.
My job is to work everyday and pay the taxes that funds the teachers salary and healthcare/ pension packages. And I am saying MY TAX DOLLAR FUNDED EMPLOYEES (the teachers) need to contribute more until the economy picks back up again, which will allow more of my neighbors to find jobs and help out with the tax generation >>>>>>>was that simple enough for you

Jean very well put .................I am waiting for a Strongsville teacher to come on here and post WHY they think they should get a raise

Jean and tom - Good answers!

Lyn,
I retired into STRS nearly 10 years ago. During my career, which many have called 'exemplary', I had the opportunity to teach at several public and private colleges - jobs at which I paid Social Security contributions. For the last nine years I have been quite gainfully employed by a private company that is benefiting from the expertise I bring to their endeavors. During that time I have been paying Social Security taxes that I will never collect because of my state retirement. I was an attractive candidate to my employer because they needed people with the skill sets that I developed as a teacher. As such, I have been making far more money for the company than they pay me, and probably far less than I am worth. Why? Because without a public education system I would have nothing - no education; no career. Instead, the surplus I bring in helps to pay the salaries of other people, and my SS contributions will go far to help people that I don't even know live better lives.

You are just bitter over the fact that you are a selfish person who would rather complain about people who deserve to get paid well for trying to ensure that schools produce fewer miserable people like the haters on this board.

Whatever YOU have in life - thank a teacher - you obviously can't do things well by yourself.

Buster-
WOW! Talk about being bitter! All I want is fairness and the teachers to be paid a decent wage and for benefits similar to the community they live in. They should not be putting their community in a position of having to support them to a better salary and benefits than they are struggling to have. Especially bad when it takes a little over ONE household to support ONE teacher's salary, and that doesn't even begin to cover benefits.

And, Buster,
Care to explain to the readers why you say you will not get social security? As per STRS:

The Windfall Elimination Provision affects how your Social Security retirement or disability benefits are calculated if you are also entitled to receive a pension benefit for work not covered by Social Security. While your Social Security benefits are lowered under the WEP, they cannot be totally eliminated.

Per the SS website:

If you work for an employer who does not withhold Social Security taxes from your salary, such as a government agency or an employer in another country, any ­pension you get based on that work may reduce your Social Security benefits.
The Windfall Elimination Provision affects how the amount of your retirement or disability benefit is calculated if you receive a pension from work where Social Security taxes were not taken out of your pay. A modified formula is used to calculate your benefit amount, resulting in a lower Social Security ­benefit than you otherwise would receive.
...The Windfall Elimination Provision primarily affects you if you earned a pension in any job where you did not pay Social Security taxes and you also worked in other jobs long enough to qualify for a Social Security retirement or disability benefit."

I taking a liking to its name "The Windfall Elimination Provision" - appropriate?

So, unless you are talking about something completely different, or I am not understanding your point, I don not understand your rant - especially since a person working only in the private sector, regardless of number of years worked or amounts earned, the MOST social security they can collect in any year is about $28,000.

Lastly, I'd appreciate it if you want to comment, try to stay away from insults and stay on topic.

well for someone with the skill sets that you developed as a teacher who now works for a private company that is benefiting from the expertise you bring to their endeavors I would have thought you would have come up with a user name better than BUSTER CHOPS

James-
Don't give him too hard a time, this is the kind of comment he made to another previously:
"Wussification of America. ..., you probably wear pnk panties and hit people with your purse. Man Up!" Is that also an example of his self described 'exemplary' teaching character?

Lyn,
Please find where I said I will not get Social Security. I simply stated that I will never get everything that I have contributed. You really are quite a failure of the education system. There is also a little something called Government Pension Offset. If you are going to quote the law, why don't you actually read it and understand it before you pop your cork?

Buster-
WOW- Full of personal attacks, aren't you?
But, on topic, I saw no comments disputing or arguing the opinions or facts from me or others.
I will respond to your question, though.
You said:
"Please find where I said I will not get Social Security. I simply stated that I will never get everything that I have contributed."

HERE:
"During that time I have been paying Social Security taxes that I will never collect because of my state retirement." - above, 11:23 am on Sunday, January 27, 2013

Keep guessing!

Such intelligent comebacks.

Try debating the facts.

Call a WAHHHMBULANCE!

Get over it - I'm not about to list my employment history. Its good enough to tell you that my taxes and those of other residents of Strongsville go to pay the overpaid salaries of teachers as well as taxpayers having paid THEIR entire share of retirement contribution and contribute to their handsome benefits. The greed needs to stop. The question is not what I or anyone else does, but better yet, as tom said, to have a teacher come on here to explain why they should get a raise.

And "teacher greed" is further evidenced by expecting the taxpayers, who have to pay a significant portion of their own healthcare, to continue to fund other peoples - namely, the teachers. Its hard enough for people today to pay their own bills - how about the teachers paying their share as well?

Another example of "teacher greed" and being overpaid...
$67,610 Average teacher salary 2009-2010 ($68,758 median salary) per ODE
+$6,761 The 10% TEACHERS retirement contribution in lieu of salary ($6876 median)
_______
$74,371 True average teacher salary ($75634 median)

$73,189 Median HOUSEHOLD income for Strongsville in 2009
$33,356 per capita income

So, if you compare these figures, how can ANYONE expect the citizens of Strongsville to fund these greedy publicly paid employees at any higher rates? Do they really think we should be working so they can be that much better off than the community they are working in? Do they really expect that 1 teacher should be making more than 1 household does?

(I have used these years because they were the most available for comparison)

OK, I'll correct myself.
Those teachers at the high end, those who have been working there for years, now just making over $80,000
(actually, $88,000 for 9 months when you add in that 10% that they don't contribute to their own retirement),
can collect $53,000, not $48,000, about 12 or 13 years before someone in the private sector can collect the maximum full social security benefit of $28,000.
Nothing like sticking it to us taxpayers and still want more.

OK, I'll correct myself.
Those teachers at the high end, those who have been working there for years, now just making over $80,000
(actually, $88,000 for 9 months when you add in that 10% that they don't contribute to their own retirement),
can collect $53,000, not $48,000, about 12 or 13 years before someone in the private sector can collect the maximum full social security benefit of $28,000.
Nothing like sticking it to us taxpayers and still want more.

Lyn,
A long time ago possessives were added to the English language. Some of them are formed by adding 's to some singular words, ' to some plural words, and no apostrophe at all to some pronouns. The details can be quite confusing since all of these can be possessive determiners, my, mine, his, hers, theirs, ours, its, etc.

I notice that either you are ignorant of such rules, or else you own an e.e. cummings autograph model keyboard.

So pick one - teachers, teacher's, teachers' - but only one is right in any given thought.

Your lack of education erodes any logical argument you attempt to assemble.

kenneth what may I ask do you do for a living

" You don't pay the salary of the teachers in Strongsville."

HUH? Unbelievable! Their paychecks fall from the sky? And those operating levies were all a dream? And part of real estate taxes don't go to the schools? Are you totally unaware?
Teachers are public sector employees paid by the taxpayers.

Tina thank you for your comments on the strongsville teachers contract
Since you are not a Strongsville teacher your work week means nothing (BUT ) your comment "Strongsville teachers make far more than I do" IS THE POINT OF THIS DISCUSSION I am glad you agree
AND TINA 100% of teachers salaries come from taxpayers in one way or another, so WE the taxpayers now want to see where are tax dollars are going

Very good James .....and yes Tina I also agree with you that Strongsville teachers make way more than other area teachers do .......thanks for pointing that out

How can a person expect others to not only pay their own healthcare but pay in to fund additionally for a teacher so that they don't have to pay a fair share? The taxpayers are paying their own plus the teachers share, minus the little they contribute to a better plan.
How can a teacher expect those in a city whose average household (think about how many may be working in a household) income is less than that of 1 teacher - is that fair?
And lastly, to expect taxpayers to pay a teachers share of their retirement contribution so they can receive 12 years earlier almost twice what the average person could ever possilby get?

Lyn ....look you need to get a second job to help support the growing list of tax uses for your money
you already are being asked to support the 51% who pay no taxes
you have to now help pay for a new school (money well spent)
pay the teachers salaries ( they want a raise)
pay for the teachers retirement and healthcare (they want less out of pocket)
so quit complaining and go get that second job you have many mouths to feed

tom-
LOL!
(But, according to Kenny, I have to go get my first job. I'm so giddy and nervous about that.)
I'm glad that new middle school is going where Center is - I just hope they spend our money wisely, since they just asked for a figure without having any plans with numbers attached to it. NO business works like that. You start with the architects and plans first, then you know what monies are needed. They are doing this backwards and this opens the door for so much mismanagement of funds.
I'm afraid they will squander whats left - I'm sure they overestimated what they needed.

why look Lyn we must have made some very solid points ..... Holly ran off and deleted all her posts (another example of cowards hiding behind the teachers union)

HA-HA!
To clarify my original comment...
I had just gone into her Patch comment history before Ms. Holly Lamovsky deleted them, so it was easily located in my computer's history, and therefore I was able to go to her deleted comments and print them just for future reference. But, everyone has their own emails containing her comments. So, as they say, big deal, but if she has something to hide,...

Just as I thought lyn - another stay at home mom who's gonna tell me how hard it is !! And by the way JAMES i'm retired after working 41 years !!! That's why I have time to get into this debate !!!

KENNY how can you criticize Lyn over any occupation she wishes to identify
come on now Kenny since when is retired a job . I mean even thou you occupy that bar stool at the strongsville cafe all day you might think that is your job now >>>> what is your nickname there???

Kenny likes to use that line to people about getting a job. For instance,
" 4:14 pm on Tuesday, July 17, 2012
Do you even have a job ??? What do you know about unions ???"

He doesn't seem to want to discuss facts. I presented lots of numbers, and not one comment from him on any of them. He just wants to throw out this nonsense. And his comments on being a "stay at home mom" is also meant to be demeaning to those women who do choose to do this - how unfortunate to the lady he might be married to. So, that's why I haven't bothered responding to him - he just wants to exchange jabs.

Mike property records searches only work sometimes your name comes up on a property search comes up as the city of strongsville had to buy your house from you in 2003. Holly left because her stories were falling apart

Mike Gollini
Joined Strongsville Patch
3:16 pm on Tuesday, January 22, 2013

<first post>

These comments were in response to another not being able to find her on buckeye. And AFTER Chapman mom said she was the Chapman kindergarten teacher.

not hatred its a simple message, let the teachers pay their fair share, or let the teachers strike, (its nice and cold out)
If the school board does not want to honor the taxpayers wishes, never again will they see a school levy pass

Rick Steves
Joined Strongsville Patch
6:19 pm on Tuesday, January 22, 2013

<first post>

Bill-
I'm completely open to any facts you have to dispute the numbers I presented above. Or if you can interpret them differently, then why not do so.
Otherwise, your statements really hold no water - just deflecting and trying to ignore what has been posted. Don't just hit and run with character jabs. Present your numbers and facts to substantiate the other position. Maybe there is something I'm missing.

And strange you mention uneducated when WE have gone into depth on some of these things and presented logic, facts, figures, calculations and comparisons,while others just want to argue.

Bill my patch app lets me post 24/7
And bill standing on the corner with a squeegee washing passing car windows is not a real job, so we will let you have all those quarters you earn

Bill
Joined Strongsville Patch
6:29 pm on Tuesday, January 22, 2013

<first post>

Your detective work is really impressive. I would offer you a job, but your salary would be paid by taxpayers, so I doubt you would accept.

James-
Very observant!
This will probably be the start of union/teachers coming on here to post under new names - they won't want to get caught posting like someone else has and have it get traced back to an individual member or union itself. Be prepared for more!!

so this is how teachers behave !!! fictitious posts i am impressed that all these people who live in "other" cities sign up on the strongsville patch to defend their friends the "teachers" we must be the center of the universe here

Kim, did it ever occur to you that someone can teach in another city but LIVE in Strongsville? Perhaps that is why they are signed up for The Patch - though your theory that you must be at the center of the universe doesn't surprise me.

Ken you live on SANDUSKY BAY ???????????? how exactly does the strongsville teachers contract talks affect you PLEASE just answer how your taxes are being used when it comes to the strongsville school district

thanks bill did you notice the first line of the story
"pays for the pension and benefits for public employees in Wisconsin."

and in strongsville the district has been paying the teachers 10% pension contribution for them

Bill-
The Forbes/Wisconsin article you reference does not apply to Strongsville as it was agreed about 20 years ago that the taxpayers would pay the teachers portion of their retirement contribution, unlike most every other district in the state. Therefore, to say "taxpayers actually contribute nothing to public employee pensions" is INCORRECT and should read "teachers paid NOTHING into their own pensions as they were fully funded with 24% of their pay annually by the taxpayer."

Bill-
Also, at 2:23 on Monday I DID say
"If my numbers are wrong, please correct me. ... And, yes, there are changes being phased in over the next few years - that's why I used the past tense for simplicity."
But, if you want to discuss the changes that are being phased in, including among other things, that they will be getting 77% of their final average pay instead of the current 66%, we can. However, as there are gains and losses, I would say its a wash. But of course others would rather cherry pick and give a sob story about just what is taken away rather than the benefits given - such as I have mentioned - the increase in pension benefit.

When I make my comments and give these figures for comparison, including comparing to what the average household in Strongsville make, it is to pass along info to my neighbors. So much I did not realize. Therefore, I assume others also are in that position. However, if there are haters out there of my commenting, then they can just not read my posts and move on. But let others be informed.

I should correct myself- I said phased in over the next few years. The chart actually shows phasing in through 2023/2026.

Bill thanks ii I ever want to move to Wisconsin this will help ....... here is the OHIO 5 year outlook ............... http://fyf.oecn.k12.oh.us/genForecast.asp?IRN=44842&Format=HTML note the 5 year rise in this line ....3.020 Employees' Retirement/Insurance Benefits

ok kenny ill play along I work at Ford Brookpark ???? but what does this have to do with the teachers contracts , BUT the bigger question is why are so concerned about how your friends taxes are spent

I think most of us believe one teacher did - and then "poof", she regretted her comments!
They know they can't justify what they are asking for from the very people who would be paying them. How could they legitimately expect others to pay for them to enjoy better than what the average HOUSEHOLD has, including benefits? So, we are to work and support our own families and then so they can have better as well? Teachers make a valuable contribution - but come on! If they need more money, get another job during those 3 months they have off. And if they are also going to school for more classes, do like the rest of us do when we need continuing education classes - do it while you work. We don't get to take a 3 month break to take the classes or to prepare for presentations or business meetings or meet after hours with clients or... should I go on with the private sectors sob stories?

I just hope the school board understands the taxpayers concerns .............and when they yet again put their hands out for the next levy (2014?) this teachers contract will be a perfect blueprint how they spend our tax dollars ............. but do not tell bill that since he wrote
" taxpayers actually contribute nothing to public employee pensions."

Bill can pass that along to Holly - they probably know each other, they sound alike. He came on when she dropped out, remember?

actually I think "HOLLY" is now the poster who goes by "Head of the FBI"

But, I don't think Holly or Bill really expects us or the district to fund any more for the teachers (ha-ha).
Interesting comment that Holly made on the Patch about some kindergarten and first-grade classrooms being crowded this year, in referring to the district she said:

"...they can not make up for the massive amounts of money that have been cut from their budgets at the state level.
I truly believe our schools want what is best for their students and the community, but like all of us, must work within strict financial constraints."

So, she can't possible expect to take, take, take and make this statement, can she? But this is the same person who said "Teacher salaries taking money away from the kids? What is more important to a kids success in school than a good teacher?"

The last part of her comment was:
" If we can't attract and keep good teachers in the classroom (and how else are people attracted to any job but decent money), we can spend all the money in the world on books or other materials and kids will be no better off."

See, she thinks any teacher who isn't paid lots of money isn't a good teacher. A good teacher must have as their number one value - a big paycheck and taxpayer subsidized benefits. Thats why someone like
Tina
above would not fit in with Strongsville - because she seems to be more dedicated to her profession but doesn't make as much. But, I would not say she is not a good teacher - however, based on Holly's criteria, Tina must not make the grade - pretty pathetic way to judge a fellow teacher.

I missed all of the earlier posts before she (Holly) deleted them was she a Strongsville teacher??

I'm confused here. You still think she was a teacher in Strongsville?

I don't know. I am answering a question and giving my reasons for thinking she is. If not, she should have said she wasn't the one the other poster thought she was so that teacher would not get any backlash. But her actions leaves us to decide for ourselves - but it really doesn't matter in our lives. Just her comments as it relates to teachers expectations of taxpayers. I hope that explains it.

The points you made reflect the mindset of those teachers in Strongsville wanting more. And therefore your arguments for same have become the points for debate. The fact that you presented them brought you into the debate and whether or not you intended to mislead the readers into believing that you are teacher here, you did leave us with that impression - and I think you would agree with that. Unlike Tina, you let people believe this. And, like Tina, you are in a district that pays less and should have an understanding for what the taxpayers are saying. The question is not, again, whether teachers make a valuable contribution - but the question is the value of that contribution. And when the mention was made of adjoining districts - no mention of comparison came from you about Berea. But, there really was no need for specifics of what district - only, as Tina said, that it is another paying less on average.

I will second that comment

Seems to me that lyn is quite an easy dupe. With regard to her frequent rants, it is interesting to see how she twists language and inserts assumptions. This is something that we more educated people can see as logical fallacies.

lyn (sic) Even though a logic course won't help you to learn to use the shift key to create a capital at the start of a proper noun, it would help you to get out of the deadly death spin you have put yourself into.

Quit whining. Pay your taxes. It's an Excellent with Distinction school district. That's worth every penny those teachers earn to put up with people like you and the many unruly spawn folks like you spew forth.

OH but I would bet that a better Strongsville teacher contract, would benefit the berea teachers at the negotiation table when their next contract talks happen

Oh we are aware it is the teachers union, that pathetic 300 teacher display walking into a already started meeting "tardy" (great point Ken McEntee) had the teachers unions fingerprints all over it, I also imagine the union forbid every strongsville teacher from answering any questions anyone asked on this subject, since all they want to do is hide under assumed names and post how they are only sticking up for their "friends" AND STILL THEY HIDE

swarm - noun -[swawrm]
to congregate, hover, or occur in groups or multitudes; be exceedingly numerous, as in a place or area. (fits pretty well actually)

I would say 300 teachers all walking in at the same time, 10 minutes into the meeting, qualifies as a swarm.

Holly you sound like you are standing on your throne looking down on 87% of the little people who are of lesser worth than you

Holly-
Its going to take more than that to convince me that the average teacher salary for 9 months should be more than what one entire households income is for an entire year, and, again, not even counting their highly subsidized benefits.

I'm not looking down on others or assuming they are of lesser worth - just referencing the relationship between educational attainment and median income. Countless studies show that as education level goes up, so does income. This is true across the board, regardless of profession.

I am speaking of economic worth only. I am not suggesting anything about character or importance. Many of the people that have been most valuable to my life are in that 63%.

Holly-
Maybe you should explain to us what degrees are REQUIRED, AFTER they are hired.
This might help us have a better understanding. There is too much general talk about further education required and advanced degrees needed.
I'm asking about what is required AFTER they are hired because we all have to come into our jobs with certain prerequisites and educational minimums - be it nurses, accountants, lawyers, physical therapists,.. Some need more than 4 year college, some more than a masters.
So, what is REQUIRED after you are hired - what degree(s). NOT what continuing education type course or classes, because so many jobs, even those not requiring a college degree, require yearly classes. But what advanced degrees are required.
Please don't include when a teacher wants to get a degree so they will be able to perform some other duties or teach other classes, or so they can "beef up" their resume so their pay will be higher. I say this because I personally know teachers who have furthered their education so their pay will be higher.
Again, just tell us what the minimum required degree(s) a teacher must obtain after they are hired.

Prior to 2011 a Masters degree was required in order to renew your license after the first 7 years of teaching. This has now been changed to 6 credit hours or the equivalent professional development units each time you renew.

I am aware that many jobs require professional development, but they are usually paid for by the employer. This is not the case in education which is why the salary goes up to help offset the cost to the teachers of this.

Education is an investment for anyone and it is not unreasonable to expect a return on that investment.

Holly-
What profession or company do you know that pays for continuing education? People I know that are in the 4 professions I mentioned, all have to pay themselves - as do even hairdressers. And, this was something I have had to pay for to maintain my license - never picked up by any employer. I'm surprised that someone feels they deserve a salary bump for maintaining their license, part of their own professional resume.
Frankly, I thought you were going to offer an impressive list of degrees that a teacher is required to have. I knew I was asking a question not knowing what the answer would be, yet now I'm really surprised that teachers use this "further education" as a reason for more salary and benefits. IMO, what teachers need, is nothing more than so many other peoples requirements in the private sector - and they DO pay for their own. Some may be fortunate to be reimbursed, but I have yet to meet anyone that lucky enough. I'm sure its considered in their salary, though.

Holly-
I forgot-
Thank you for answering my question so honestly.

I will speak from personal experience here. When I first began teaching, a few years into my career I was bumped out of my position (reduction in force) and ended up taking a job not in teaching, but for a hotel company. I began the job at an entry level position. I was approached and asked to train for a higher position. I accepted and they paid for my training. The same scenario happened a couple more times and within a year and a half I was making more money than I had made teaching. All my training had been paid for by the company. I reached the top position I could without needing a business degree and was asked to pursue this. There was a tuition reimbursement program and I could have taken advantage of it and got another degree for practically free and then been promoted to an even higher paying position upon its completion.

These scenarios DO happen. In the end, I went back to teaching as I felt I had a more positive impact on the world there and didn't want a job that required so much travel knowing that eventually I would start a family.

Moral of the story, every job has its advantages and disadvantages. We get to choose our jobs though and in choosing them we accept those advantages and disadvantages. You should not begrudge others because they chose a job that offers better pay, hours, benefits, etc than yours may. If you are unhappy with aspects of your job, you have the choice to leave it and find a better one.

Lyn, also since you referenced hairdressers, I am sure you know that many salons have different levels of stylists at different price points. One can become a master stylist and earn more money per appointment as a pay off for their additional training. Getting paid more for more training and experience is hardly limited to teaching.

Holly after reading your latest batch of posts, it is actually a shame you are NOT a Strongsville School teacher, Our school kids would have benefited from someone so well versed (I mean that as a compliment )

James - I actually WAS a Strongsville teacher my very first year out of college many years ago. I was laid off because I was the low man on the totem pole (now that is a problem with the way things are done in schools) and that is when I began my career in Berea.
I will not for a second make the claim that the taxpayers are getting their money's worth out of every teacher, but I know they are getting their money's worth with me. I feel a great sense of responsibility to my students and my community which is why I hate all the generalizations made about teachers.

Holly two thing you wrote really stand out

I was laid off because I was the low man on the totem pole (now that is a problem with the way things are done in schools)

I will not for a second make the claim that the taxpayers are getting their money's worth out of every teacher

those two items are exactly the problem there are strongsville teachers that still use the same teaching techniques for the last 20 years that should have retired years ago, and others who do not possess even the most basic computer skills to answer let alone even open up a E-mail. and there continue to they hide, some of the highest teachers in the district with THEIR hand out yet again going GIMMIE,
so the anger is not directed to teachers like you holly it is directed at those teachers who you even admit exist, those who bolt out of school as soon as the buses are gone,
BUT Holly in a union them- becomes- we- becomes- us- becomes- you all

Jean, I certainly don't disagree with you that those kind of teachers need to go. I am not sure about Strongsville, but I know that in my district there is a way to get rid of those people, and I would assume Strongsville has the same. From my experience though, this does not apply to the vast majority of teachers. Most of the people I work with are hard-working, competent, and dedicated. A few are not. Unions don't necessarily protect these people, but they do set up a process that many administrators feel too cumbersome to follow (they also have full plates) if they want to get rid of someone. How the union helps a teacher like me is by giving me a formal voice as to my working conditions. That is important to me as I want to do a good job but couldn't if my classes had 50 kids in them or if I had to teach 8 different lessons a day. I would love to see seniority go - not being able to master e-mail these days in any job is unacceptable.

at my sons first week at high school they had the parents go from class to class in which the teachers went over what was expected, they gave their email addresses and web sites to help out, until we went to his english teacher
she very proudly boasted that she owned no computer and her school issued email address has never been set up, we were to call the school and leave her a message if there was any questions, he said it was the easiest class he ever had
and you (union) think we should keep rewarding this teacher by continuing to pick up her pension and health care costs, pay increases, step increases and whatever else while the average paycheck has declined and family healthcare costs have gone up nationwide

Mateo
Joined Strongsville Patch
10:16 pm on Tuesday, January 27, 2013

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250,000 is what you want to pay teachers, what a grand statement to make on your very first comment on the Strongsville patch