Couldn't agree more. Students as bargainning chips. How utterly pathetic. Our entire family has always bent over backwards for our teachers. We cherish them. If what they were asking for was justified, we'd be behind them 100%. It is not justified. They're embarassing themselves, our city and putting our students in a very precarious situation.

The School Board is failing the students!! Do you actually think they are learning? What does it say about how the BOE feels about the students if they won't even sit down to bargain? Not sure why the BOE calls this negotiating. When you negotiate, you talk with the other party.

more and more parents are keeping their kids home and are trying to teach their kids... when your child says they don't want to go because they aren't learning anything, what do you do as a parent??

Wrong Carrie. Please tell me where all of the extra funds are coming to come from to meet these demands? With all due respect, this family is not about to vote for any more tax increases in any way, shape or form. The only reason the kids aren't learning is because the teachers have abandoned them in their classrooms. They've been totally misguided by whomever is leading them, and convinced them to strike.

I couldn't agree more. Please join me in the protest I am staging called "Taxpayers at the Table" For more information go to: 4taxpayers.com

Taxpayers can no longer be left out of the bargaining table (especially if we continue to use the property taxes to fund the educational system)

We need to stop paying a lawyer for what the teachers and BOE can do to halt this strike. I have heard that Mr. Pebble has made millions off of the schools. Those millions should be spent on our kids, not a strike.

carrie-
Contracts and negotiations require lawyers. They, unfortunately, charge fees.
If you are unhappy with those fees growing, direct your anger at the union lawyers - take a look at each parties contract online and you will see that the union has 108 pages involves in changes compared to 38 for the Boards. So, just which party is causing these talks to drag on over petty things, like s 4th paid personal day off instead of the 3 they now have. Look for yourself, don't just complain about the BOE's attorney.

Also, when the union is being totally unrealistic about the availability of funds, then, again direct your anger towards the teachers - if they face the reality of the situation instead of feeling entitled and throwing their tantrum, this would end, and attorney fees stop.

Amen

BOE - Thanks for taking a stand for what is right. I will shake your hands and thank you when I see you.

Well said. "SHOW MEEEEE THE MONEY!!!!"

sad then again you posted on another thread the other day "men never landed on the moon" so your version of the truth should only be left up to the reader

Morning Sad Citizen, One would like that you could answer that very ignorant question yourself, but we are here for you. Have you seem the behavior of the teachers? Are you aware of the BS the high school teachers were telling our children? Have you seen how the teachers are using our kids for their propaganda? He is thinking about his children. Which some parents who are supporting what the teachers stirking is failing to do. He is a high profile individual and he is aware that some people would target his children because they are very angry people. Hope that helped.

I kept my kids home until today to avoid the Side Show Circus that's been swirling around all of this BS for the past few days. Both kids have contacted me and told me they wish they had their teachers back - but things are better than they expcted they would be,

No striking money grubbers at Chapman this a.m. Maybe they're finally realizing the enormity of their mistake????

lol - That is all you have. Trivisano! That is hilarious. Good thing most people in this commuunity do not listen to that baffoon. Let's see children, angry teachers and Trivisano vs. taxpayers. Impressive! I will take our chances. Tracy lives in Independence and could care less about the schools or taxpayers in this Community. You made me laugh this morning. Thanks for that.

all I have? just posting what I heard yesterday, nothing more.

Tracy Linscott is an absolute and total joke. Not well spoken. Not well informed. Pathetic actually. And this is who the teachers have representing them? I feel bad for them.

Funny. I heard the interview. He sounded just fine. Anyone can go to the WTAM website and listen for yourself. In actuality, the teachers looked like fools. WTAM couldn't even find someone to go on air because only two goof balls are allowed to comment. Linscott finally made it to the interview and it goes without saying... she's an embrassment.

Not to mention the non-teacher Union Thugs that have been brought in to 'organize and direct' the striking teachers. Beautiful. These neanderthals are really making the teackers look good. Not.

Yes. That's is the reality. And I agree, end of discussion. These are tough times. Having a well-paying job, healthcare (which in relation to most people, the teachers pay next to nothing) is a blessing nowadays. Better not see any of the Board Members looking for pay increases either. Look what the brain surgeons in Medina just did.

Abe-
Do you or anyone have other numbers to show?
Or, just saying that the Board did a good job of managing the expenses or that some expected expenditures did not happen and were pushed forward?
You can make statements and guess all you want - but put up or shut up.
Present the facts and figures to show otherwise.
Have you even looked at the financials showing the comparison of projections to actual? If you have, did you really see where the differences occurred?
Or are you another one just repeating the same line?
Would you know how to read the financials???

Abe, I can get you some orange vests to wear today so a car does not hit you while picketing. Remember, since you have lost about 1,000 this week I heard Pizza Hut is giving out free pizza since you teachers do not want to pay for anything youselves. If you feel you are worth more money look for a job somewhere else.

The Dow is not a true gauge of the economy.
Job growth has stalled.
Housing is growing at a slow pace.
We are still in a slow economy.

Lyn, for once I agree with you, using the DOW as a measure of the US economy is not correct. The S&P 500 is a far better indicator, and eventhough it is not as optimistic as the DOW it is also at record highs. Problem is that trickle down economy is not working, companies are sitting on HUGE amounts of cash, slowing down job growth and so on.

Amazed-
There is too much uncertainty in this economy for companies to commit too much funding to large projects and expansion.
And Obamacare has a huge effect on hiring.
Also, there is a real need to bring jobs back home.
NAFTA created a real problem for us.
Many of these problems started under Clinton, who did have some good ideas, but much of what we are digging ourselves out of today goes back to him - housing/lending included.
Unfortunately, W inherited the policies in place and when he finally tried to fix them he had dear old Barney and others saying things were fine.
All presidents contributed to the problem in some way, but when you have a leader unwilling , until the last 2 days, to work with the other side and leaves the country unable to move forward because of the uncertainty he has created, this is what we have.
There is a real need to bring jobs back home

Lyn, you did so well, until you started showing your partisanship again.. NAFTA was Bush Senior's. baby, he ran with it and even signed it, true enough it was Clinton ratifieing it and signing it in law.
I do agree what W got stuck with some of Clinton's policies (it would be silly not to). However he didn't help the situation either.
Bringing jobs back home is not a government decision, that is the private sector, and surely you don't want the federal government forcing that.

Yes- I agree NAFTA started with Bush - he started the negotiations and Clinton finalized them. But that doesn't change the fact that I believe if was wrong and hurt our economy.

Policy and taxation can force businesses to bring jobs home.

WHAT??? Taxation? Are you one of those damn liberals who think they can solve everything with taxes? How about the free market?

NAFTA-
Clinton signed it into law on December 8, 1993 - went into effect on January 1, 1994.
Clinton took office on January 20, 1993.

Liberal????
Taxation - If companies want to outsource jobs, make it harder for them to do so.

Lyn, not understanding your last post, I already agreed that Clinton ratified it and signed it into law.
Point was that the whole deal was setup by Bush Sr., he even signed it (ceremonial)

Just showing that Clinton had a major role in this as well - much happened between just a ceremonial signing and actually finalizing the negotiations and then getting it through the house and senate before Clinton signed it into law.
Don't get me wrong - I like much of what Clinton did -especially his ability to work with both parties and work towards a balanced budget. I also like that Hilary attempted to tackle health care. But I don't like what we ended up with in Obamacare.

Taxpayers need to be heard. Please join me in the protest I am staging called "Taxpayers at the Table" For more information go to: 4taxpayers.com

Taxpayers can no longer be left out of the bargaining table (especially if we continue to use the property taxes to fund the educational system)

Amazed (teacher) Citzen
Have you heard of Enron....
Sarbanes and Oxley Act,"................
Just like I figured a clueless teacher with no knowledge of the real working climate.........
Back to the picket line

John (S'ville patch hack)
Yes I have heard about those, and you believe the current high market is all based on companies inflating their profits?
You are not as smart as you like to think you are Johnie.

It shows by calling everyone teacher who doesn't agree with you, kinda childish and small minded for sure. By the way, teacher is NOT a bad thing to be called, it is the only reason you are able to sit there behind your keyboard, pounding your frito stained fingers.

Other than that, once you start coming with arguments you might get a reply.

Unamazed (teacher) citizen
I love your unintelligent points to date none...........
Teachers are not the reason why I am able to sit at my computer.....
It’s called hard work and dedication...........
Keep believing the union’s side of view you will get a lot of great responses from this site....................

John (s'ville patch hack),
Just because there are maybe 10 die hearts around here, doesn't mean you are right.
Right now I actually have a decent discussion with Lyn. You however seem to incapable of such.

They should add a counter showing the loss in property value for the city of Strongsville.

Yes - just talk to people living outside the city and ask what opinion they have of our city now. Those I know wouldn't want these teachers teaching their kids. And, they don't want to live in a city that they think is full of punks wandering around - that is the new perception of what is going on. If they think that is happening now, they see it as a city going downhill and one to stay away from.
So, thanks teacher. You just shot yourself in the foot, again. Now revenue will go down because taxes will go down because home values will go down.

http://www.seastrike2013.com/seastrike2013/Sville.JPG
How much lower can Strongsville property values go?

yawn lyn, you are falling back into your little hatefilled world, where teachers are the evil of all.

Amazed - just telling you what I've heard.

Really, have you looked at www.buckeyeinstitute.com lately? There are many elementary school teachers making 80,000 plus for 9 months of work. Way overpaid. Also since when does your education guarantee you should have a job?

Abe(strongsville teacher)
Duely noted....................

I support the teachers too - when they're in the classroom. What the Union is asking for is ABSURD. What the Union has done throughout this process is make one fantastic group of teachers look like a bunch of self-serving, righteous, aloof, bullying, unrealistic money-grubbers.

Sure thing Abe. What exactly does not party affiliation have to do with anything? Typical. I will ask you because I can not seem to get an answer from anyone else. Using facts, can you tell me what exactly you feel the teachers deserve that they are not getting? Using the existing proposal, please tell me where they are being mistreated. Now everytime I have asked someone this, they disappear. Please tell me something. And please be specifics. Not blanket statement like, I support teachers because they are worth it". Give me facts.

Abe-
So, if you are not a teacher, are you married to one, or related to one? Or dating one???

Also, if you are a Rep. - you would typically be against increased taxes (no levies) and for necessary cuts or adjustments to spending (teachers)

Abe is what is referred to as a "seminar caller" on conservative talk shows. They always start out with, "Actually I'm a conservative, but in this situation they couldn't be more wrong". HA HA. I see Abe spouting his Obama mantra below: "the economy was down in 2008 (code for "blame Bush"), but on it's way up now (code for "thanks to Obama"). Nice try.

Rich, your argument of YOUR flat wages is childish. My wages have consistently gone up in the last years (yes, I am in the private sector). Does that mean that teachers wages autotmatically need to go up?
It seems a petty argument.

So well said, Abe had to leave for the picket line. I hope he got those orange vest I sent to him.

Spinnerbait, I do not know where Strongsville ransk among 600 districts in Ohio for compensation packages. I do know that our high school is ranked 83rd in Ohio. I am curious and might look into this later. If I find something out, I will pass it on.

You can find here-
http://ilrc.ode.state.oh.us/PublicDW/asp/Main.aspx?server=mstris2&project=ILRC&evt=3002&uid=guest&pwd=&persist-mode=%228%22

This is the Ohio Dept. of Ed. website.
I checked one time a long time ago, and ran down both pages of all districts and I think we were about 8 or 10. Could be wrong on that.
But you have to take our salary and add about 10% to the average salary for Strongsville to give you a true comparison, since the district pays this into the teachers retirement, unlike about 95% of the district. This was given to them in lieu of salary -so its like salary - so you must add that in. Also, throw out a couple of those that have a whacky number like $250,000.

Thanks Lynn & Strong Mom

It justs seems to me that I keep hearing "you get what you pay for " IF we are in the top 15 in compensation, why would we be 86 in rankings?

Glad I dont have a home up for sale right now in this city. We will be the next Parma in 5-10 years no matter if the teachers go back today or not.

I'm embarrased to be a citizen

I'd love an accurate number on this. It would be useful when I talk to the media. I would like to ask that you please join me in the protest I am staging called "Taxpayers at the Table" For more information go to: 4taxpayers.com

Taxpayers can no longer be left out of the bargaining table (especially if we continue to use the property taxes to fund the educational system)

Spinnerbait: If this strike drags out, we can just go fishin'

83rd was based on 'Data is based on the 2009-10 school year.'
We were 122 last year 2010-2011, and we are 108 for 2011-2012.

Hi Karen,

Thanks for the info, so we are 108 in academics and in the top 15 in compensation. I really think this speaks volumes if the figures are accurate difference in

Yes.

Don't you mean like a "good doctor" should?

So you believe 80,000 for 9 months of work to teach elementary school still deserves raises and step increases? Sorry to say most people will desagree with that.

Abe, Maybe you should ask your boss for a "planning" period and a
"team planning" period like the Union has according to their contract.

I'm not sure why the teachers argue that point in regards to background checks. Just go back a few years and you will see we had teachers (that were in SEA) having sex with students.

One of my kids has a teacher at the high school who spends more time talking about her dating life than teaching. Certainly not what he's in school for!

David, Glad you brought up the Drug Testing issue. How about the Steroid Abuse at Albion Middle School ?

I'd like to add to the above "Board settles for more than city can afford - continues to float levies twice a year."

because levies continue to fail due to Board giving in to some of teachers monetary demands.

To me, this is the worst scenario of all, and one everyone on here has seen play out in their minds. Hopefully it is why the BOE is not budging from their final best offer...a shake up is a better outcome goal although it will be a white knuckled, tongue biting ride a while.

Isn't the Ohio record for teacher strikes 4 months? I vote we go for that and save the 1.5 million a month plus we get to break the Ravenna record. At least we will be number one at something other than girls soccer.

Obama's campaign mantra: "The economy was down in 2008. It's on it's way back up." Here's the rest of the story: The economy was down in 2008, it was worse in 2009, it was even worse in 2010, it was worse yet in 2011, it continued to get worse in 2012, it's so bad now that it has surely bottomed out and hence, must be on it's way back up.

Abe -
The Dow, again is not a true gauge of how the economy is doing. It is inflated and driven by the market manipulations of the hedge fund and money managers.
You need to look at unemployment and housing to really see how the economy is.
You want to compare to 5 years ago?

Per the Bureau of Labor Statistics - unemployment -
Jan. 2008 - 5.0
Jan. 2013 - 7.9

If GM wants to have a union, so be it. I can assess the quality and price of their cars and make an individual decision whether to buy a GM car or a Honda. If "we" insist on having teachers unions, let's introduce an alternative into the marketplace. How about a school voucher program? If the unionized, public school teachers offer the best option, that is where parents will send their kids. If parents can use vouchers to send their kids to private or charter schools, they will choose that IF they are better performing options than the public schools. Competition makes things better and more efficient.

Then go ahead and you pay for their huge increases since you are so loaded with money and want to spend it irresponsibly. How about performance based increases? I will speak for many when I say I am tired of paying for elementary school teachers making 80K plus and are only paying 150 a month for healthcare for their whole family. Not to mention they are working 9 months a year. They are very well compensated! So is your wife out picketing today?

Abe, If you make claims...you can not get upset when people what you to explain your position based on facts in the current proposals. You and I are obviously going to disagree on merit pay. Everyone else gets promotions and raises based on merit. What is interesting though if that the Board Is NOT proposing merit raises. They have proposed that merit should be used during teacher layoffs. Tell you what...when you can manage the time, read the proposals and then return so we can have an adult discussion. Thanks Also more info on this "pay freeze" pleaes. Not sure what you are referring to. I think you might be getting confused between "step increases" and pay freezes.

jabace, how do you envision a true performance measure for teachers? Since you brought it up, you should have a good way to measure. Let's hear it

The public has been in the dark about what these teachers are making until websites like www.buckeyeinstitute.org became popular. For years levies would pass cause people thought teachers made around 40K. Little did we know that if you get a masters we are going to give you 6K step increases and raises until a teacher hits 70-80 grand. My friend who is a Strongsville teacher with a masters and her husband have laughed, bragged, and been shocked about this for years. Not to mention about three years ago and prior the Sville teachers were paying 30 a month for healthcare for the whole family. They have ripped us off enough and it is not going to happen anymore.

Abe, what does it matter to us what happens in Brunswick and Medina? I don't know if what you say is true or not. Doesn't matter. This is Strongsville and we have had enough. The bottom line is that they have every right, if they are that unhappy, to move to Brunswick or Medina. They are not the only good teachers out there. Got it!

S'ville mother, as do you.. have the right to move, or vote no to levies...

Abe-
You are not correct in saying Brunswick and Medina teachers make more.
IF you simply look at salaries, it appears that way.
BUT you HAVE TO add about 10% to Strongsville's figure because the district pays for the teachers contribution to their retirement. They have been doing this for over 20 years - and it was decided to do this in lieu of giving them a raise - so it is just like a raise, but given to them differently. Because the teachers do not have to pay into STRS themselves, they are actually earning more.
Sorry to everybody, but we keep having to repeat this.

Per the Ohio Department of Ed. website, salaries for 2010-11 (most recent listed)-
http://ilrc.ode.state.oh.us/PublicDW/asp/Main.aspx

Brunswick - $59,392 average - $59,235 median
Medina - $70,988 average - $68,508 median

Strongsville, without adding 10% - $66,558 average - $68,916 median
with 10% - true effective salary - $73,214 average - $75,808 median

the way schools are funded in the State of Ohio has been declared Unconstitutional several times... Why is NOBODY doing anything about that?

Until the teachers striking stop acting like thugs, we will not get anywhere! Actions speak louder than words.

Actions do speak louder than words. Say what you want about the teachers -- they're standing up for what they think is the right thing to do. The people posting comments using words like "thugs" to describe teachers are only saying those things because they can hide behind a screen name. If the naysayers actually wanted to get a point across, they would go out and protest the teacher strike. Instead they choose to act like pathetic children over the internet.

This "Jacob Smith" comments from a California Patch-

" only saying those things because they can hide behind a screen name. ... act like pathetic children over the internet."

LOL

Hey lyn, you know what the difference between you and me is? We're both hypocrites, but at least I make a good argument.

the "real middle class"? you mean the people who do not have a college degree (or choose not to utilize one). Why do we even have colleges and masters/phd programs if we can not benefit from them? Maybe everyone should just accept the fact that by financing your own future through school, you deserve to be compensated for it.

uh huh ok mark the first time poster, you are recycling the exact same rumors and false propaganda that we have seen dozens of times from different sources
the next false rumor will either be a teacher hit a student or a teacher was drunk

Student;
Good they at least have the capability of firing a sub............
Teachers in the union try firing them it would take 10 years with 100 grievances with the union etc.etc.etc.....
By then the teacher is retired and living off of the taxpayers pension plan...
UNION REALITY

WRONG again. The blame lies on the fact that they have worked since the beginning of the school year without a contract, hoping the BOE would negotiate in good faith, well the BOE hasn't.

If that is all it took - the contract would have been negotiated and settled along time ago. It is about the money and compensation.

How does giving them an extra planning period and shrinking the class size not cost money? Is the union offering to extend the school day to cover the planning period time? No? So how exactly does having teachers work less and teach less students in a fixed time frame not force the school district to hire more teachers? It looks like your former math teacher wasn't one of the shining stars of the bunch.

This is a great video that shows reality. If you are interested in the truth (and some of it is not what I was hoping for), then you should watch this before posting about the conditions in the school. I'm proud of these students, who are behaving far more maturely than their teachers. I also would encourage them to give the subs and the administration more time to get things up to speed, as their former teachers who claim to care about them so much did all they could to sabotage their education during the strike.

jw - you are EXACTLY right... it is a great video of kids TEACHING THEMSELVES! They are all openly admitting that there is either NO teacher at all in their classroom... or their is a teacher not qualified to teach them their required material. Thank GOD they had real teachers mold them all these years to give these students a sense of self and honor to take matters into their own hands.

Millions of successful kids are homeschooled every year. Wow - motivated students learning, who would have imagined this? I'm a lot more impressed with these kids than with the teachers outside banging on cars and blowing whistles! Kids - keep up the good work. Teachers - get back on board.

Wow, student, you seem to be very concerned with your teacher's planning period. Why do you care so much about that? It's funny, when I was in school I had no idea what my teachers were doing when I wasn't in their class, nor did I much care. I have to conclude that either a) you are not actually a student, or b) you are a student who has been indoctrinated with whining from your teachers about their horrible working conditions.
By the way, there is literally no study in history that has shown a causative relationship between smaller class sizes and student performance. Another union lie designed to force the hiring of as many dues-paying members as possible.

yea... ok jw93

are you saying a class of 30+ will have the same results than a class of 20? If so, you are a very misguided and uneducated individual.

Wow, you got me Real Lyn. I am helpless in the face of your withering statistical analysis. I'm extremely well educated, so much so that I know for a fact that every single effort to prove a causative relationship between class size and performance has failed. Now, I don't doubt that the teacher benefits from having a smaller class size, since that's fewer kids to put up with, fewer tests to grade, etc. But I just don't see how that has anything to do with the kids you claim to love so much.
Incidentally, the only mention of the precious, darling children in the SEA's contract demand is that for every child over a certain level (can't rememer - 23? 25?) the teachers want extra pay. That's right, that's how much they care. Our children are a burden to the teachers, and they want more money once that burden reaches the unfathomable level of 26 kids.
Sorry, I get wordy. You asked a question. The answer is unequivocally, statistically, factually, yes. All else equal, 30 kids in a class will do just as well as 20.

jw-
"All else equal, 30 kids in a class will do just as well as 20."
Agreed - unless you have students with attitudes like Lyn SHADY who will act up and make the learning experience difficult for their fellow students.

Amazed is totally clued in to what everyone in other unions are saying. Apparently they have some kind of Borg collective consciousness.

Obviously just as much as Lynne does.. yet you fail to call her out for it..
Can't have it both ways JW.

Assuming you are a student, I am sympathetic to your plight. We've all been there. Teenagers who think they know the way the world really is, only to graduate, get a job, pay taxes, and become that which they railed against in the past. You are impressionable, which makes it easy to manipulate you, even if you don't realize it. When I was in high school I would complain about how "those evil old people with no kids are screwing up my school because they keep voting down the levies". Where did that come from? Not my parents, who never told me any of their opinions on anything political. It was from the grumblings of my teachers, planting the seeds about how incredibly important it was to get that next levy passed.
So yes, I'm sure you can think for yourself. But don't assume that because we don't agree with you that we've been "corrupted by society". We've just been exposed to the realities of adulthood, and not all of them are pretty or consistent with what you thought you knew in high school.
Just remember, it's always easier to fight for other people to pay more of their money when you have none in the game yourself. Precisely why the Democratic party wants to keep as many people off of the tax rolls as possible (sorry, can't help myself).

Sorry, I would be remiss without saying that I am thankful and proud to have 2 parents as teachers. I am proud of them. I think that my job is just as important as theirs and I think they would agree. I hope my children will think the same of me when they are older. I have also been very lucky to have parents that were teachers b/c they were home with me and my siblings every day off, every holiday and summer. I did not know what a daycare or babysitting was. I freely enjoyed vacations and summers and got to sleep in every break. They will honestly say they are so lucky to have been able to have that time with their family...that is priceless....and teaching being an awesome profession is the icing on the cake!