There are a lot of good, hard-working educators in Strongsville who would not strike unless they felt they absolutely had to. Although the details and specifics are not available to us, I trust that they have good reason for doing this. I hope that the community also trusts in these teachers, and contacts the board to encourage them to negotiate the fair and equitable contract these teachers are asking for.

• Manageable class sizes. ----( less work with more pay)

• Keeping art, music and physical education classes intact at the elementary schools. -----(keep all teachers jobs period)

• The ability to attract and retain quality teachers.---- (seniority rules and senior teachers follow the money)

• Respect as valued professionals. ---- ( kiss our feet we are teachers)

I stand behind the board of education...............so go ahead and strike (your union threats are falling on deaf ears) last time teachers actually walked out in Ohio was what 2007

Jean, as an educator (not in Strongsville) I find your comments ridiculous !!! Manageable class size is a major problem facing my profession today! what do you consider an ideal class size to be? I am not sure what the sizes are like in Strongsville, but in Cleveland (where I teach) I have a class of 45. As far as your comments to keep art, PE, and music.... Why would you want to eliminate or reduce those classes? Finally, teachers have been given little respect, as you demonstrated with your comments, so I ask you, how much am I worth? I have 12 years experience, a masters degree and I am working on a second masters now.

I support the Strongsville teachers 100%.

Ahhhh, yes jean, you must be using the buckye institute to attempt to list my salary. The web site is incorrect, always is....
The problem in this state is funding!!!! Ohio Supreme Court has ruled the way we fund out schools unconstitutional three times that I am aware of. Until THAT problem is solved the problems will never get fixed

I wasn't at all deflecting the topic. I cannot judge anyone for their decision to strike it not to strike, however, I do believe in the collective bargaining process. as far as what Strongsville teachers making, benefits, class size, etc., I am not in their classroom so how can I determine what they are asking for is not justified? Are you in their classrooms? I know they are educated, critical thinkers, and problem solvers, they are also a collective group. Apparently the collective group does not agree with the board. I trust the teachers and in the process of collective bargaining.

Jean, I also caution you when you listen to the salary figures. Ohio in general has a VERY large population of older teachers that are within two to three years if retiring. I point this out only because the salaries are reflective if their service years and education level. I am also aware of many districts that use various non-traditional classroom teachers positions and include them in "teacher salary stats". There are many higher paid jobs in education (instruction coaches, specialists, etc) that are being added into these figures.

Jean, Sounds like you should've been a teacher like me. Have you ever seen a rich teacher? When I am driving back up to school this Saturday morning to catch up on paperwork from the past week, I will reflect on how important I am in the lives of so many young children. I would like to think that over the past 33 years I have touched the lives of thousands of children in a positive way. Even though the teacher bashers think we are overly compensated in many ways, I feel that I am currently fairly compensated but that my job has become much more complicated over the years. Even if you figure out my daily pay over 50 weeks, it is less than many in the business world. Are you kidding me? Do you realize the influence and importance that teachers have on the future generations?

As the courts have repeatedly ruled that the way we fund schools is unconstitutional, I don't know why teachers salaries are not put on a statewide pay scale, like other state employees. Every teacher with "x" amount of years or experience receives "x" amount of pay. Period. Why should a teacher here or in Solon or Orange make more than one in Cleveland or Lorain or any other city in the state? Those teaching in the "better" suburbs have a much easier job, yet they feel more entitled to a higher dollar and constantly tell us they are better than all those other teachers when they say - you get what you pay for. Not only is that insulting to other teachers, but doesn't factor in so many other things - like crime and family life that other communities deal with that places like ours may not.

The only fair way is to take the state average and give that to EVERY teacher throughout the state. You are no better than that teacher working in a lesser paying district - in fact, that teacher who decided to take on a challenge in an inner city school deserves way more than your cushy suburban job.

TEACHERS GO STRIKE--- the community does not support you at least 10-1 want to see you outside freezing and worrying about your future (only then will you see how it is in the real world)

One on one is long gone. Classroom sizes all grade levels I don't care how good you are one person cannot do the job right. Now if you have a child with special needs - forget It!! The state has made teaching so complicated with mandating testing for the kids & the teachers - kids don't want to be there.

The same people have been going around and around on this issue for weeks. I have come to the conclusion that it is impossible for anyone that is not a teacher (or does not have a teacher in the family) to really understand what is going on here. You can make the argument about pensions, salary, etc. You can wrongfully assume the ill intentions of these teachers when they ask for a manageable class size. You can blame union thuggery for all the ills of the world. The situation remains - teachers in Strongsville obviously feel that things have eroded to the point that they can not do their jobs effectively. Unless the school board sees that and works to remedy the situation, the teachers WILL strike. You can only push people so far before they have to push back. I want these teachers to be able to do the best job they can both for my kids and yours. This is happening now for a reason, we just can't fully understand what that reason is until more details come to light, so let's not jump to conclusions and assume poorly of these teachers in the mean time.

Lyn, I hear your frustration but please don't use "absolutes". You made some pretty harsh generalizations. I don't want to get into a battle, but I do want to clear something up that you said. Teachers do NEED to continue their education. You stated they don't and it is a WANT. Teachers have to have a masters degree within an specific time frame (I am grandfathered so I did not have to, although I DO have one. I am currently working on a second one as well.) In addition, teachers do need to complete continuing education credits at each renewal. I just wanted to make you aware if the oversight.

Well stated Holly

Holly-
Maybe it is possible that Steph deserves more - why not, she has worse conditions to teach in and I wonder how many of our teachers would trade places with her. I bet none.
And after reading the opinion of the those teaching here in Stongsville towards those teaching in areas that pay less, I would not stand with someone who looks down on me - regardless of the fact that they are also teachers. I stand with people of character, not my profession.

Sometimes the best way to deal w/obvious impassable contention is to start all over. I would recommend to our school board that they take the action that Providence, Rhode Island did in 2010. Due to fiscal constraints& inability to settle, they fired all teachers when they went on strike. We could then hire back teachers on terms that would allow the district to stay within it's financial means. This would also give the district the opportunity to check out each teacher & make them ACCOUNTABLE for their abilities to teach effectively.There are too many teachers,especially at the high school level who are pathetic & don't teach at all. Yet others who do an amazing job & put in great effort, may get paid less than those who lack effort. It would make those who VALUE their job & do well at it stand out to be rehired & give the district the opportunity to weed out the overpaid ineffective teachers. There are plenty of recent teaching graduates who are enthusiastic and fresh and eager to get a job & begin teaching at a fair & reasonable salary w/incredible benefits. Go ahead & strike teachers-it is the best thing you can do for us so we can have an opportunity to get rid of those of you who are overpaid or ineffective or lazy. I welcome it.

Let them strike and find a job in the private sector. The model for education needs to change if it is really for the kids.

I'm thinking about Beverly's comment...
Does someone have the answer to these questions?
If the teachers strike, can they be permanently replaced? If so, can the district decide to replace just certain teachers?
Since there is no contract now, can they do whatever they want even if they don't strike and the district decides they have reached an impasse? Or does it have to go to a federal mediator?

I wouldn't mind it if they did start over fresh - with keeping the good teachers, including those who didn't participate in the rowdy march on the Board. And give a job to some fresh eager grateful teachers who care not only about themselves, but about the students, parents, school and community - and so we don't just hear from them at contract time or if some election issue might take something away from them.

Hi, I'm a Strongsvillian, and I'm butthurt because I have to pay taxes for teachers to earn living wages. How dare those ingrates, who certainly don't benefit the community by increasing property values and living standards, ever think they could strike for their collective benefit. In fact, what is it with all these unions these days? We used to be a great nation! We should go back to the 1910s -- a time when the government wasn't so busy protecting these horrible unions. LESS GOVERNMENT! MITT ROMNEY 2012! WOOOOOO!

I have a couple questions. How many students do we have now vs the last time an agreement was signed? Students equal revenue, similar to a business, so if there are less students then there is less revenue so less money to spend. How are the test scores doing? Are they improving or getting worse? How do you rate a teacher besides the results of test scores? Because of their union relationship they're more or less guaranteed their job no matter what they do or don't do so you can't fire them unless they break the law. I think it's all pure greed and wouldn't be remotely possible if not for there being a union. It's time for the union to go

If I recall correctly,there were statistics announced not so long ago that enrollment in Strongsville schools is down from past years. Can anyone speak to this? That should mean more $ spent per student,but instead I'm sure it means more money to have to spread around for other fiscal issues-ie. teacher salaries.

This pertains to every district, not just Strongsville, but why is their pay scale/grid still in place in 2013? A pay scale where for each year (or 8 months work) of service they all get raises for having one more year of service. A pay scale where if they have a bachelors degree they make X dollars, if having a bachelors plus 15 credit hours they make XY dollars, where have a bachelors plus 30 hours they make XYZ dollars, where having a masters they make XYZZ dollars, where having a masters plus 15 credit hours ......Each and everyone one gets this whether they deserve it or not. Each teacher makes the same, depending where they fit on the grid, no matter if they teach elem fingerpainting or advanced HS chemistry. It's all nuts and unsustainable.

Beverly-
You would think that more available money should go for kids needs. But, someone proudly pointed out that we bought some supplies from Brunswick because we couldn't afford it. They were making the point that the teachers were able to overcome this lack of proper supplies by providing such great teaching skills. Maybe if money were available FIRST for the kids, these supplies would have been more updated for our kids and they would have done even better. When will credit be given to the students abilities, what they possess, and what their parents contribute to the kids education and learning experience. Once again - take these same teachers and swap them with the ones in Cleveland or Garfield and tell me that you'll get the opposite result - Cleveland schools will be with distinction and ours will be near the bottom. Really? Its all about the teachers?

I live in Strongsville and enrollment is down drastically. http://www.strongnet.org/Page/226

Beverly- what a GREAT idea! My daughter has had some amazing teachers who aren't getting what they deserve and there are those who are getting more than they deserve. Merit based pay us the way to go-IMO.
Anyone free Thursday at 7pm? Care to join me at the Board meeting?

Also, as a resident of Strongsville, what was done at the board meeting did little to garner my support of the teachers. I am someone that leans towards merit increases rather than tenure increases and its unfortunate that many teachers who have tenure hate what they do but are reluctant to make a change because they know short of inappropriate behavior with a student they will have their job no matter what. I went to college and revived a degree in secondary education but decided not to pursue the profession for the reasons listed here. I never felt comfortable with the idea of pay increases without justification or more importantly instead of someone who truly deserved it. Sad.

Well as a student teacher I came with several ways to measure this and I wasn't even a professional at the time. 1) have administrators randomly sit in on classrooms 3x a year and have metrics to assess during the evaluation 2) have a panel of teachers evaluate lesson plans and how well current technology is incorporated 3) student evaluations 4) standardized test scores (would only account for a portion of the final outcome yet would still be included) 5) Additional "points" of some sort for volunteering for extracurricular activities volunteered for. And that's just what I remember off the top of my head. I continually hear that "I would be all for it it there was a fair way to do it" yet I never see any solutions proposed or seemingly anyone actually stepping up to work together (unions and administrators) to come up with something. I think this is one of the main reasons you're getting the reaction from non-teachers. When a solution is needed for most industries saying there just isn't a solution isn't acceptable. Yet in this case it is.

I hate to say this but it's really on teachers to do this. Think about a group of teachers who actually make this an initiative on their own. As long as people say "it's not my job" things don't get done. If its that important to teachers than I would think it would be well worth the time. Even if it takes 2/4/6 years spend an hour a week to accomplish the goal Again excuses are easy to make, setting difficult goals and following through aren't.

I have lived in Strongsville for almost 30 years. In that time I have seen levy after levy passed. Every time the citizens question the merits of the levies, we are threatened with cuts to THE STUDENTS and all "non-necessary" programs. If I am correct, most athletic participation is now "pay-to-play". So, in summary, more of my middle-class tax dollars are going to fund pensions for "educators", who will have a better pension than I will ever achieve in the private sector. If you "educators" are so concerned about the welfare of the students, why have student programs been cut in order for you to have a better pension?

I must say that I have all of my teachers to thank, as I journeyed through school. Each one did impact me in a positive way. Some more than others, but when I look back, I have to understand that they put their hearts into what they did. Also, my parents never did question the teacher. I think today's "psuedoparents" need to learn that.

Well folks, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that there are only a limited number of funds available to the school system. If the funds are increasingly being allocated to benefits for "educators", they cannot be used for the students. I know of several school system retirees, who are receiving in excess of $100,00.00 per year in retirement PAY, this amount does not include medical and other benefits. I am not saying that The Board of Ed. is faultless. Many members are former "educators", and as such, have been biased in favor of their own kind. However, due to a struggling middle-class, the Board must now draw the hard line that should have been drawn long ago. The only scapegoat here is the taxpayer.

ENOUGH
I find it amazing that we have all these first time posters leaving comment defending the teachers in their contract talks ....when the school board proposals are private and have been released to the public ....which can only mean two things
1... they know what was proposed because they are actually teachers/family pretending to be concerned citizens
2 everyone is trying to become Nancy Pelosi "we have to pass the bill so you can find out what is in it"

How can these teachers be taken seriously?

They hold signs that say:
"FAIR CONTRACT NOW!"
"WE'RE WORTH IT!"

And someone will comment its not about the money? And the only time they take a stand on something at a Board meeting or on FB is when its at contract time or to defeat some law that will limit their benefits? I thought teachers also cared about the students, their parents, their school and the community. I guess not those teachers in our district - too much effort going in one direction, towards themselves and what can the schools do for them.

And those buttons!!
To think a teacher came up with that slogan:
"I don't want to strike, but I will"

GO AHEAD.
I hope you goofballs wear those proudly to the grocery store and to the mall and every else around town. You think that you deserve it, prance around like idiots. If only you could read peoples minds, you would hear the same thing - GO AHEAD and STRIKE!

You teachers think and act as though you are threatening something that the public fears by say you'll strike.
In case you haven't guessed it yet - we are waiting for you to do just that! Remember, everyone can be replaced. Those of us in the private sector know that, now its time for you to walk in our shoes.

About a month ago, someone commented on cleveland.com that the teachers were wearing, in the classrooms, their union t-shirts with a slogan on them. The parent also commented that the teacher was using class time to explain to the students why the teachers were all wearing the shirts. Anyone know about this? Seems rather inappropriate to me - both using class time and isn't there a dress code for teachers also?

From the SEA website:

Story of the Day:
Item #2, Posting Date: 2/7/13
Over 300+ Strongsville Teachers and Supporters came out tonight, Wednesday, 2/7 to give voice and provide presence to help the Strongsville School Board get serious about the "proposals" made by "Dollar-Bill and his verbally-challenged support group".

Am I reading this right? The teachers print this on their site and behave so disrespectfully at meetings, yet they hypocritically list
"• Respect as valued professionals"
as something they feel entitled to in their contract?

I haven't seen any disrespect coming from the BOE - it all seems to be only in actions and words from the teachers.

People – can I make a suggestion here?

Time and time again we hear someone say that all of the postings (reply trails to a specific posting) from so-and-so have been deleted when she/he pulled their original post. Unfortunately, there was a lot of good discussion associated with that “train of thought” but, because the person pulled it, all of the trails that were attached to that posting are deleted as well. The other problem is that these posting trails are becoming so long, in order to keep up with what is current; one has to review/scan the entire listing to see what is new off of the original posts.

My proposal – everybody post every post in the reply box at the end of the article so that none of the postings will be deleted, and, it will be easier to follow. All you have to do is look up where you left off from before. If somebody wants to delete their post, let them. It will not disrupt or delete the train of discussions that will be in chronological order.

I can see where someone could set up a posting hoping that everyone replies to it, just so that they can delete their posting and effectively remove the content of the other postings. (Good tactic to remove the anti-union or pro-union posting information).

Lyn, In my opinion, the taxpayers should get a refund of some of our tax dollars. Pensions for "Educators" should be funded by the "Educators" with some sort of employer match (similar to the private sector). Public employee unions should be abolished - I believe that they are contrary to the public interest. And, if they insist on striking, fire them all. I know quite a few degreed individuals, who are currently unemployed, and would love to work nine months out of the year. If my opinion seems harsh, it is because I am at my wits end with out of control government spending. I don't know about you, but, if it weren't for greedy government on all levels taking my hard earned money, I could live quite comfortably (kinda like a retired teacher).

Lyn, agreed! My child had a math teacher, that ruined her confidence in math to this day. The teacher, Miss Schambaugh, marked all of my child's homework as wrong because, according to Miss Schambaugh, the solution of X was on the wrong side of the equal sign. As someone who took advanced algebra, I know that X can be on either side of the equal sign. Not only did Miss Schambaugh mark the homework as wrong, she made fun of my child in front of the whole class. Simply unacceptable, especially since my child was correct in her answer, and Miss Schambaugh was indeed wrong. I am sure that with my Bachelor's degree, I could teacher better than most in the school system. The only thing I , and others like me lack is a teaching certificate, and lots of psychology classes (in order to mess with the minds of our young). Thus, why not hire the unemployed on a permanent basis. Without a union, the individuals who do not perform to high standards, can be terminated quickly (just like the private sector).

Terri-
I have been told that you do not need a teaching certificate to be a substitute teacher - not sure if that is true. If it is true, and the teachers strike, just think of the wealth of new knowledge that those stay at home moms, unemployed professionals and retired folks could bring to our students, in addition to just having them do the day to day "book work". And, I remember when I heard what they got paid for being a sub, it wasn't that bad. Besides, I think when subs are brought in when teachers strike - there is a decent pay - heck, maybe even a benefits package given to them. I'm sure it isn't as good as what the teachers now get - but many would gladly jump at the chance.

Now that the teachers have voted to strike, I would think it is the responsibility of the Board to start lining up these subs, now. As well as, I had mentioned, a security firm to maintain and control any strike problems.

Terri-
They voted to authorize the strike if the contract isn't reached soon. As I understand it, now if the union says its a go - they strike because they took this vote.
So, they have begun the first steps towards strike action. Therefore, I think the Board needs to do the same.

Teachers work 9 months a year but have the equivalent of 1 month off in holidays and breaks so they really work 8 months. It adds up to 180 days. At 9 hours a day, which is probably high, that's 1620 hours. At a salary and benefits of $100,000 that is $62 per hour. That's almost 8 times minimum wage. That's not enough????

I like Terri's idea of a petition to get the Board to act in the best interests of the districts school children & taxpayers-without them there would be no cushy jobs-they seem to forget that.

I feel badly that some of your children had to experience poor teachers in the school system. When your kid has a bad year, you as a parent also have a bad year. This should never have to happen.

I feel equally as bad for the teachers in this school system that are good teachers and do care about their students.

I graduated from this school system and had both poor and wonderful teachers. The reason I am a teacher today is attributed to several of them. I even attribute my success as a teacher to the bad ones. They showed me what I shouldn't do.

I do not think that most teachers expect more money. I do think they want to avoid a huge pay cut, which is essentially what you are doing by getting rid of the pension. According to state law, I am not even sure that would be possible. The answer to relieving some of the strain on the taxpayers is to use money smarter. I have seen my own district acknowledge this and take steps to do so. It has allowed the teachers to make small sacrifices, avoid any cuts to anything that impacts the students, and save the taxpayers money. I would suggest that Strongsville look into MERP for their healthcare, energy conservation plans, running their own professional development instead of contracting it out, and other measures such as this. There are other ways of handling this.

Rich, please keep in mind, and I know it has been said before, that there is a lot more of a time commitment to teaching than you think, even in the summer. Granted most of my hours of work are concentrated in the 9 months of the academic year, but the summer is not without work as well. I am busy sitting on interview teams which take up full work days several days a week during the peak hiring time (July/August), I am spending a lot of time developing units and lessons that I do not have time for during the school year. The week after school ends and the week before it begins I am in school daily doing work to wrap up the year or get the next one started. There are committees and curriculum writing to be done in the summer as well. There are training sessions to attend. If you take your job seriously, the summers are also work. I also do a fair amount of work over Christmas break writing midterm exams to be given in January. I have spent Spring Break for the past several years taking students on language study trips to Costa Rica. If you are a good teacher, you spend a lot of time doing activities related to your career during the entire calendar year.

If a doctor, lawyer, or dentist had 40 people in his office at one time, all of whom had different needs, and some of whom didn't want to be there and were causing trouble, and the doctor, lawyer, or dentist, without assistance, had to treat them all with professional excellence for nine months, then he might have some conception of the classroom teacher's job."

Donald Quinn

You are not an expert on education just because you went through the system for 12 years. Go into a classroom. See the challenges that teachers face, daily. Then judge and not a minute before!
And keep in mind that not only do they need to deliver the professional excellence that I stated above, but they need to do so in a fashion that keeps their client wanting to come back for more.
Lastly, if teaching is so easy- then you, yes you making the judgements out there, why are YOU not teaching?

I think there has been way too much over simplification going on here. Yes, "fire them all", as if that's an answer. Without knowing the proposals offered, I find it troubling that the board's offer has resulted in the majority of the teachers voting to authorize a strike. That tells me that something is seriously wrong, and if a strike does happen, nobody wins, most of all the kids. I don't know if anyone else has looked, but it would appear that this Pepple & Waggoner law firm have a "take no prisoners" mentality.

http://www.pepple-waggoner.com/index.html

Check out the topics listed under the seminars tab. And I guess that begs the question as to how much the board, I mean taxpayers, are paying for these people who really have no interest in Strongsville other than billable hours.

please

Come on teachers, like you always say when there is a levy on the ballot, "Do it for the students" Well, suck it up and do it for the students then, and realize that we are not paying for your 70,000 to 100,000 salaries for nine months of work anymore. Your lucky you are not like the rest of normal America, and get downsized from your job to be replaced by someone who would gladly work for 40,000 a year, ooops, 9 months. Plus try paying what most people pay for healthcare, and try contributing to your retirement. Unbelievable. So tired of hearing these crooks.

John Wells-
I had previously visited that law firms site and didn't find anything at that time worth commenting on either way.

And, I saw nothing wrong with what they have in quotes at the top of their site:
"Empowering Ohio's Boards of Education ... ... with effective legal counsel to make quality choices for children". Nothing wrong there.

But I had not looked at the seminar section until your comment. However, I still don't see where one would have a problem as the agenda covers a wide range of topics, including-
-negotiations strategies designed to improve student performance
-techniques for successfully settling collective bargaining agreements
-preparing for and responding to common union tactics
-responding to the threat of a strike
The only things a teacher might have a problem with would be when they cover teacher evaluation, discipline, renewal and termination - because that has to do with possible negative consequences to them. But those would naturally be included in this type of contract negotiation.

I think the question needs to be asked, are the teachers going to drag this process out with the result being more attorney fees are charged? The quicker the teachers agree to terms, the less fees the taxpayers have to pay. Why blame the Board for hiring lawyers? Of course lawyers will be involved - on both sides.
The longer these teachers refuse reasonable terms and insist on gouging the taxpayers, the more fees - THAT is not the Boards fault.

And , Holly, why wouldn't they be involved in the negotiation process - as this has to do with a legal contract.

I think the teachers pay is backwards, In Cleveland the classes are larger, the children are harder to handle, limited supplies, and little or no parental support and yet their pay is the least in the county.
Now Strongsville teachers have smaller class sizes, the children are better behaved (for the most part) and a very active parent base along with an active PTA, and yet their salary once the pickups on the pension pickups are factored in are one of the highest in the county!!

Did everyone enjoy their paid holiday yesterday?
PRESIDENT'S DAY - NO SCHOOL

Also on calendar- Friday, Feb. 15 - In-service Day - no school for students
Too bad they couldn't use election day in Nov. for this, as someone else had suggested. Why not? No school that day either, but I thought that was done because strangers would be in schools voting while our kids were there - a possible security issue. Why do the teachers need off this day?

Melissa sounds just like that megan who deleted all those nonsense comments about 10 days ago. Throw in a little of that Jane Smith and D.D. Verni and what a "team of one" you get - thanks, union and teachers, for showing how flawed in thinking your teachers are when it comes to their expectations of what they are entitled to.

After a while they spew such stupid logic that its not worth wasting time on her/him/them. From now until they get a contract I'm sure the union and its teachers will keep posting stupid comments as though they are just some concerned parent or citizen - heck, maybe next one will be living in Alabama but just wanted to stop by to give their opinion. How many times will some of these clowns post on here as another first time poster - as long as they think we really value the same person spreading bad info?

Melissa - Your angry rants are not helping your cause. If this is the best you can do with a Master's degree, then your education is worthless... "Half empty kind of thinker" - really, is that the best you've got? And, in case you're wondering (which I'm pretty sure you're not, because you think you have all of the answers), WE THE TAXPAYERS have every right to judge you and monitor your actions - because, wait for it... WE pay your salary. I will reiterate my earlier comment. If you are so angry with YOUR CHOSEN career path, leave! Then you can get a job in the private sector, where your bad attitude will not be tolerated. And, you will not have The Teacher's union to hide behind.

If you wish to have a thoughtful conversation with me, that's fine. Otherwise, I will not waste any more time on you. Consider yourself in a "time-out". Please go to the corner now. And, come out when you can behave in a more mature fashion.

from what I have heard enrollment is down almost 1000 kids in the last 5 years and down 600 in the last 2 years (since the last contract) right now there are some class sizes under 20 kids per class
1/2013 enrolled 6187
http://www.strongnet.org/cms/lib6/OH01000884/Centricity/Domain/39/Enrollment%2012-13%20as%20of%201-2-13.pdf
1/2010 enrolled 6919
http://www.strongnet.org/cms/lib6/OH01000884/centricity/domain/39/Enrollment_1-1-10.pdf
1/2008 enrolled 7190
http://www.strongnet.org/cms/lib6/OH01000884/centricity/domain/39/Enrollment_1-3-08.pdf

Anyone notice one of these new posters decided to post AS a student now, to say how the teachers deserve the best and work so hard?

What teenager would make their first and only comment about the greedy teachers? THAT is what a student does at 12:23 am? Signs up on the Patch to only comment on the teachers and never expressed interest in other teenage relate issues? Wouldn't a kid be more likely to comment on other things like one of the blogs related to teenage topics or articles on sports or other school activities?

Yeah, teachers - keep masquerading as someone you're not and we'll believe it. And keep changing your name and we'll believe that too!

tom-
If enrollment is down and class sizes have dramatically decreased, maybe they need to start consolidating some classes and, therefore, eliminating some - but still keeping the class size within the required maximum range. Why would we keep more classes than necessary, just to keep people employed?

Hey Melissa/megan-
About your Donald Quinn "words of wisdom" (HA-HA) for teachers, that was a just plain ridiculous comparison.
Did you find that quote out of some little comical teacher book of poems and praises you keep by your bedside, the same one you found that "I'm a Teacher" poem you posted and deleted? What next?

You have this little book you bought yourself to prove how superior you think you are?
Right - not a teacher!

Holly-
You give a lot of credence to the teachers blog. A few times above you have mentioned reading some things in it and seem to take it as pure fact without considering anything else. Yet you also say " I don't know enough about what happened during their negotiations to point fingers, just letting you know what I read on their blog." Of course reading the teachers blog is going to relay what the teachers want and will be critical of the Board. But, when reading your comments, you seem to take the blog as fact without having all the info.
And when you say " I like to give people the benefit of the doubt. I will assume their intentions are good until they prove otherwise." Why does that only apply to the teachers and not those on the Board? Doesn't that show your bias when you assume the teachers are justified in their claims and requests and the Board is disrespecting them for not going along with what the union wants?

Just a word of caution on those 100 less 1st graders for next year, a lot of working parents enroll their children in all day kindergarten at a private school because that all day kindergarten is cheaper than day care. When it comes time for 1st grade they put them back in the school system. So while enrollment is down I would expect to see a little jump in the number of 1st graders entering the system next year.

Regarding enrollment, the following was from a July, 2012 Patch article:

By 2022, the school district will have almost 1,000 fewer students than it does today, a report commissioned by the Strongsville Schools says.

The study by DeJong-Healy says school enrollment will decline every year for the next 10 years, dropping from 6,223 students in 2011-12 to 5,276 in the 2021-22 school year.

There were 2,126 students at Strongsville High School this year, but in a decade, there will only be 1,629.

The graduating class of 2022? Only 392, compared with 465 this year. Kindergartners, though, will stay the same -- 319 this year and 318 a decade from now.

Thanks for the clarification on the enrollment

Strike: March 4.

This on cleveland.com today -

But the district’s money woes will come to a head next year, when it is projected to be about $1.5 million in the hole.

Since the district legally cannot operate in the red, Herrmann (Strongsville schools treasurer) said the administration will have to cut that money from its annual expenses.

“We are looking at cuts to programs, services and staff to meet that hole,” she said.

I see D.D.'s last inappropriate & immature comment regarding lyn was removed. It appears some can't have a civil discussion without regressing to 12 year old "butt humor". It certainly doesn't give much credence to any points she/he was trying to make,because that just made he/she seem completely unintelligible.I truly hope he/she is NOT A TEACHER. I can only imagine the example she/he sets.

double d venom, have a problem managing anger? your earlier comment needs deleted.
was reading the different area patch articles, saw about this pending strike, i hope the members of this board of education are ones to finally stand up to unreasonable union salary demands; citizens are tired of these leeches sucking what they can out of our pockets

Wow D.D.,that's the best you've got as a retort to explain your inappropriate remarks? I'm not surprised-nor have I been impressed with anything you have written as having any logic to it. I really pray you are not a teacher, but sadly,I know of some who are like you & they only still have their jobs because of that lovely cushy thing called tenure.

I know that we the taxpayers are paying for the teacher’s pension pickups (at least up to this point in time), hopefully that is one of the “sticking points” in the negotiations to eliminate them altogether.

I wonder if we are paying for the teacher’s union dues as well? Does anyone know? Maybe that is a sticking point?

Does anyone know how much money the union dues are that must be paid by each union member, per month, per year?

This would be an interesting tidbit of information.

Please everyone commenting here join me at the board meeting tomorrow! We will show support in a mature, adult fashion- without being disruptive

I'm going to get hammered like a nail for this, but as a STUDENT at Strongsville High School, I have to disagree with the majority of these posts. The teachers that I come into contact with on a daily basis are amazing at what they do, and deserve much better than they're getting in general. To comment on the class size issue: I agree with the teachers. My English class is packed, and it makes it a lot harder for us to have one on one sessions with the teacher; it's not because the teachers don't care, it's because they just don't have enough time to meet with 30+ kids individually. AND they have 5-6 classes of 30+ kids daily. How can they be expected to have time? However, I can say that my English teacher busts her ass in order to meet with me. She will skip her lunch period if need be. BUT she shouldn't have to. One of my teachers works two jobs to support his family. How can some of you say that Strongsville's teachers are "rich" when they're struggling to support their kids and themselves? EDUCATE YOURSELF BEFORE YOU MAKE IGNORANT COMMENTS. Now, to speak for myself. If the Board of Education cares so much about its students and staff, why do we have mold growing from the ceilings in the science hallway? Why is there a hole in the ceiling with a broken compressor that leaks when it rains when they PROMISED to have it fixed in September? WHY DO MY TEACHERS HAVE TO BEG FOR RESPECT? I see what goes on here & I support my teachers because strong teachers = strong students!!

Lyssa-
Its good to hear a concerned students opinion.
But I have to question why you should be privy to knowing that about a teachers financial hardships. This information should not be known by the students and the teachers should not be discussing the negotiations with the students, especially during school hours.
And, if a Strongsville teacher needs to work 2 jobs to support his family, obviously that family is not living within their means. But, I can understand a teacher taking a summer job for extra money.

Lyssa-
Its good to hear a concerned students opinion.
But I have to question why you should be privy to knowing that about a teachers financial hardships. This information should not be known by the students and the teachers should not be discussing the negotiations with the students, especially during school hours.
And, if a Strongsville teacher needs to work 2 jobs to support his family, obviously that family is not living within their means. But, I can understand a teacher taking a summer job for extra money.

Lyssa-
Also, I hope those items needing repair are taken care of soon. But, shouldn't that also tell you that available money is an issue, rather than just blaming the current BOE?
I would rather see funds be put towards the kids and their needs, before the teachers - especially if it comes down to one or the other.

To lecture the readers and say "EDUCATE YOURSELF BEFORE YOU MAKE IGNORANT COMMENTS" is a rather bold statement for a young person. Have you studied how your teachers compare to others in the county and state, and what they don't have to pay, as compared to those taxpayers in the private sector? Do you have that experience to have acquired the knowledge to make these comparisons? I don't think so as a teenager. But I won't insult you with the same type comment you have made.

To Lyn, Beverly and all other concerned citizens - The School Board meeting might be a good place to gather volunteers for a grass roots movement. It's time we started organizing, to beat corrupt public unions at their own game. How about getting a petition going to ask for the firing of all striking school system workers? Or, one to abolish the Union, so that "Educators" are more accountable for their actions in the classroom. I'm not sure about state laws, but if enough signatures are received on a petition, we can call for a vote of The People, perhaps starting with Strongsville, then going statewide.

terri wander over to the superintendent post somewhere in all the rubble there must be the answer to your striking workers question

Terri-
I don't know if that type of petition is possible.
BUT...
I've been wondering if it is possible to have an online petition drawn up to be sent to the board - one that states we, as taxpayers and members of the community, support the Board in taking a stand on pay and benefits, and that we also stand behind them if the teachers walk out from their jobs and strike. And, if they do, we hope for their permanent replacement (since I understand they can be permanently replace, but not fired if they strike).

Does anyone know how an online petition can be drafted and if some concerned citizen site could be created for us to actually sign our names? Something similar to those petitions on the White House website where people can create petitions and others can sign. I wonder if its even possible to put on the Boards website.

Lyn- He doesn't bring his financial hardships to the classroom. He mentioned his second job in class a few times when referring to different topics. And NO teacher has or will discuss the strike. I have learned all that I know from the BOE and union representatives. However, I'm not going to argue with someone who won't support the people who educate Strongsville's youth. ALL of these teachers deserve better. Go ahead-- get a petition. The student body will over turn it in a minute. WE support the people who control the future. I wish you felt the same. Good luck!

I posted during my study hall an lunch period, but thank you for your concern!

And I haven't came into contact with them but I have read their statements online.

Jean- the rules have changed. We can use phones and mp3s during lunch and study hall :) I appreciate your effort to deflect the topic though.

oh and lyssa your other comment
"And I haven't came into contact with them but I have read their statements online."
but yet on the teachers own website the say
"to help the Strongsville School Board get serious about the "proposals" made by "Dollar-Bill and his verbally-challenged support group"
you asked earlier "WHY DO MY TEACHERS HAVE TO BEG FOR RESPECT"
with comments like that how do they earn the right to be treated with Respect as valued professionals when they show such disrespect to the school board and an attorney

How is it that a student in school decides to sit down in study hall and decide to read the Patch, and then, sign up to make their very first post about teachers? I know you are a student, but I find it hard to believe that a student, on their own, seeks out the Patch while in school to comment on this.
Not make their first post about other teenage related issues, but this. Its got to be more than just because it has an effect on you because of being a student. Other issues would have been of more importance than to make this a teenagers first appearance. To say that the teachers keep this issue out of the schools is inaccurate, as according to so many other reports. Do you have any family members who are teachers?
BTW, did you see them wearing their teacher union t-shirts in the classrooms or around school?

Lyssa it sounds like you have some great teachers but it also sounds like you are a good student, but a word of caution this is not a black & white situation where the teachers are a 100% right and the BOE a 100% wrong

Actually, I've had an account for a while. I took a journalism course last semester and were asked to look at other news sites and articles to better our own writing skills. I wanted to learn more about the issue and stumbled upon this article in the process. It's truly a shame that you felt threatened enough by a "teenager" to call my administrator and whine about my posts. I'm entitled to my own opinion and nobody, even a principal, can take that away from me.

Lyssa has some valid points which points to the biggest problem. The salaries of some teachers are out of line for what they are teaching and other teachers are not getting a fair salary (her teacher may have to work two jobs as they could have just started in the system and are making $40K). All I know is in the private sector if I needed to hire a programmer with a very specific skill set, I had the ability to create a unique job level so that I could pay them higher a salary than an entry level programmer. It sounds like everybody starts out at the same base rate (granted I am completely oversimplifying this) and everything is based on length of service which is not the best measurement for pay increases. I don't understand why there are not salary caps on elementary and middle school teachers, which could free up some money and why there are not advanced teacher slots (if you teach an AP class then your starting salary and cap should be higher) to support the higher levels of learning. I know if you have an advanced degree you do get more money but if you are " technically" not using it because it is not required for your job level why should you get the pay increase. I have had several product managers get their MBA while they were in their current position and for them to get a raise then needed to apply for a different job. I think the pay structure needs to be completely revamped along with the pickups and benefit issues.

Lyssa -
Are you related to a teacher?
If so, are you related to a teacher in the Strongsville district?

Yes, I am; but no, they don't belong to the SCSD. However, in Strongsville, the students and teachers ARE family.

No, but they are SHS alumni. I don't see how this is relevant to the current discussion at hand. If you'd like to have a civil, face to face conversation, I will be at the meeting this evening.

Many high school students speak to people as adults would. They are ALLOWED to speak to their neighbors, friends, parents, family members, etc to find out about the world around them and ask questions. They are becoming functional members of society by inquiring and vocalizing about the world around them. So KUDOS, LYSSA! Good for you. It is part of a parents job to educate their kid and encourage them to be inquisitive. You can judge them, Lynn, Jean, Terri and Tom, but the reality is that they have all rights to do so. And they are no more wrong than YOU for doing so. You assume that everyone on here that disagrees with you is one person, as if it is unfathomable for multiple people to disagree with you. you speak as though you are the majority, but when looking at these posts, there are only a handful of you who make up the "majority" who are against teachers. I promised to "go to my corner" as demanded by you bullies earlier, but this blog keeps clogging my email. So I will turn off all notifications now and not be a part of this anymore. I will also note here that you ladies need to find a job, other than annoying housewives who have NOTHING BETTER TO DO than blog and spew your hatred all day long. I am sure you can turn my words around again, and you will again, but it just makes that handful of you look like the classless malicious shrews that you are. SERIOUSLY! And that is not me being malicious. I am just calling it like I see it. GET A LIFE!

Lyssa,
I am so glad that you are fortunate enough to feel that way about your teachers-you must have some really good ones.No one is disputing that there are alot of good teachers in Strongsville & they DO deserve good work conditions and fair pay.However,there are a great deal of bad/ineffective teachers who command high pay simply because they have tenure & are protected by a union. That is just one issue that angers those who pay their salaries(we/your parents/the taxpayers) and it should.There are many issues that need changing to help sustain Strongsville Schools. One of them is Teacher accountability for how effectively they teach because it is their job.In the private sector people routinely receive reviews of their performance and if they don't perform adequately,they are fired. If they don't show improvement/reach goals they don't "automatically" receive pay raises. The way our schools are funded is bass ackwards & it needs to change-this is just all a part of this change.We taxpayers & property owners can't sustain the costs involved with what we view as unfair or excessive salaries/benefits. There is just NO MORE MONEY. It doesn't mean we don't value good teachers, it simply means we all need to learn to live with less in some instances and to concede in others-or face losing jobs. The teachers have that choice-they can choose another profession/job if they feel they have it so terrible.

Or-perhaps they can look outside the box & see that many are struggling financially,paying extremely high rates for their own health insurance,have no retirement savings or pension plans-and work 12 months a year with little time off. Perhaps then, they can find it within themselves to feel grateful that they have so much. Somehow,I don't think many Strongsville teachers will do that-they are spoiled because they were given too much a long time ago & they have become accustomed to it. Just as we taxpayers, who have had to adjust our expectations & expenditures, have had to do,teachers need to adjust theirs.Sadly,our country is no longer living in prosperous times.

Instead of arguing over the issue like children, show up to the board meeting tonight and educate yourselves. I will continue to support the people who have supported me the past 12 years of my life. As an 18 year old, fully functional member of the community, I will be there.

I HEARD the teachers want a 15,000.00 a year raise and a paid 3 month summer holiday

I said what I had to say at the meeting. I'm finished posting here.

Wow, I came on here to hear some educated discussion on this topic. But, it looks like it is the same bunch of loud mouths posting throughout. Sorry you have so much anger Beverly/Lyn...you should have made your thoughts known at the BOE meeting last night! Hats off to you, Lyssa, Melissa and DD!...you three ARE in the majority of Strongsville residents...it doesn't look like it though because of the few blowhards on here... I will search elsewhere for intelligent debate.

James- A concerned parent spoke to the board regarding recommendations, yes. No students were asked to speak by the teachers. I spoke on my own, without any pestering. The 3 other students that spoke were advocating teachers rights, students rights and a peaceful settlement between both parties. So, instead of talking out of your butt, get your facts straight. Oh, and for the record, they are asking for what they DESERVE. That's what degrees are for, silly. Do you think a brain surgeon would accept 50k just because they saved lives? Uh, no. It's about what you work for and deserve.

You are 100% right about everything you said to Lyssa.However,we must cut her a break-she is young,immature-in that she does not have the life experience that we who pay the taxes that provide an education for her do. The big question to all that has been discussed here & in other posts is "how are we going to fund all that these teachers want?" That is & has always been the entire problem. You are absolutely correct Myron: NO ONE IS ENTITLED TO ANYTHING & that is the problem w/everyone's mindset here that "supports" the teachers.However,we also have to look @ the bigger picture of a president that supports and ENCOURAGES entitlement with his socialist agenda.It's just great to want to help out those who don't want to work & want to collect $ off others contributions-problem is that at some point those who feel entitled outnumber those who support them monetarily & then they end up joining that class of people & everyone in the middle class becomes poor. Everything looks great on paper when they propose these "grand ideas"-but in reality,when you just don't have the money to fund it,you have a huge dispairity & the eventual collapse of a system-be it our middle class or a city's school system,like in our case. Each year the school system falls deeper & deeper in debt trying to keep up with unrealistic expenses.The BOE is simply asking teachers (who claim to care about students,but haven't ever gone to the BOE about items/issues to BENEFIT STUDENTS)....

....to do as the rest of middle class America has had to do & adjust their expectations & give a little to make things function. The selfishness,greed & entitlement are what keeps getting in the way.The big news flash is that taxpayers can't give anymore & have made so many concessions for their own families that they are NOT FINANCIALLY ABLE to put out any more money for those who feel entitled. The result will be that they or their fellow teachers will lose their jobs over this because the schools just cannot function in a continual deficit & the state isn't giving any more $ either. Until someone tries to fix the states broken system-which we all know was deemed unconstitutional over 15 years ago & has yet to be attempted to be fixed-we will have to do what we have to do to keep running. If that means firing & replacing people because they were too greedy to save theirs or their fellow teachers jobs,then so be it-WE SIMPLY CAN"T GO ON LIKE THIS,IN A DEFICIT. So,Lyssa,instead of being a smart @ss or perhaps a dumb @ss,tell us,how do you propose we pay for all these teachers want? It's all about funding-there is no money,you can only cut so much & the teachers only want cuts that will affect the students & benefit teachers.SO, who truly cares about the students?-the BOE who is trying to keep the schools afloat, or the teachers who don't want to give up excessive retirement funds that bankrupt the schools.I can tell you one thing,the BOE isn't operating out of greed.

All good analysis Bev. I was going to say maybe I was a bit harsh to Alyssa, but after re-reading her comment, I don't think I was. There are plenty of people will continue to encourage her to think as she does now, that society owes you what you think you "deserve." But there are way fewer ppl that will give her an early, honest dose of reality. No one owes you anything based on your education, degree, status, etc. if you are getting a higher learning degree w the sole expectation of being paid more after you get it, then you will be the whiner who tells everyone your sob story that you can't get a job that fits your education level. Boo-hoo! Ya know what, if u need money for u or ur family...I don't care if u have 3 PhD's...if there's no work paying what u think u "deserve"...get off ur ass and put the tissue box away...then either start your own biz or sweep up the street...you do whatever you have to do to survive and keep working your way up. For your sake Alyssa I truly hope you don't fall into the entitlement mindset, although it sounds as if ur already at the doorstep.

The schools were complete chaos today--so, let me ask you this--if the BOE promised the students and parents that the schools would be "business as usual," then why were kids sitting on the floors and on top of desks? Why did the BOE promise to secure my education when they knew they couldn't? I went from 4 classes a day to 1. The classes that I need for college are gone thanks to the greedy pricks that sit on their asses all day long. I don't care who I offend at this point. I pay taxes. I work here. I live here. I love it here. However, my opinion needs to be heard and I'm done being politically correct. If my teachers don't come back then this city better bet their sorry asses that we will no longer be rated as excellence with distinction. Excellent students come from excellent teachers-- not some homies out of the hood.

Lyssa Gwin-

You end your comment with -
" Excellent students come from excellent teachers-- not some homies out of the hood."

Why did you stop there and not just use the "n" word?
What a disgusting, racist thing to write!
All I can think is it must be a result of your upbringing or teachers!

Young lady, you have completely lost any credibility that you may have had. And, I doubt no adults on here will cut you one ounce of slack after your comments above.

"greedy pricks that sit on their asses all day long"-Lyssa,I thought you liked your teachers & walking a picket line in the cold is not sitting on their asses. Guess yesterday was a dose of reality for you & maybe now you can understand the frustrations of the taxpayers & parents. What disturbs me most s that you've gone from an intelligent well spoken student to being influenced by the behavior of those teachers you once looked up to & have apparrantly learned from them to model that same poor behavior.I would have expected more from a student from a district that claims to be "excellent with distinction. However, I would have also expected more from the teachers who claim to be the reason for the district being excellent & yet many of them have shown us why so many of the kids are being misbehaved & disrespectful because of they who taught them to be so,their "model teachers". I am only referring to those teachers who told students to cause trouble for subs,who screamed profanities @ subs,jumped on cars & the like. Sad day in Strongsville when they have influenced their students to stoop to their level. I am especially sad for those teachers who feel forced to picket although they don't believe in any of what the SEA is doing-and there are many of them who are caught between a rock & a hard place. This is a huge life lesson Lyssa,that you don't always get your way,but it's how you behaved during the "negotiations" that will be remembered long after this is all over.

Beverly-- I am also a taxpayer. I understand where you're coming from. Just please understand my frustrations as a student at this point: my teachers don't speak English and we aren't learning anything-- we're only doing silent sustained reading. I could do that at home! And, for the record, I wasn't referring to African American subs when I said "homies from the hood." Yesterday, a substitute teacher (who was white), said, "How y'all spell dis?" to the class when she was trying to write something on the board. I am not a racist, but I do see how my last comment could have been skewed and I apologize if I have offended anybody.

Trust me Lyssa,most of us understand your frustrations too well. You are obviously a good kid who just wants to get her education & move forward in life in a positive manner. The current situation is placing a huge roadblock.Do not let it discourage you & just weather the storm the best you can. Out of bad things/experiences, often come good things and much needed changes. As an old lady,I have had much life experience that has taught me this. At times I can get pretty fired up as well & even say things that I should probably word differently out of frustration because I've lived here so long & the politics in this city can be overwhelming and infuriating. However, I truly do have alot of hope and faith in you young people-you are a progressive generation and have been handed alot of crap to deal with that was not of your doing. We all lose much in so many ways w/all that's happening. Be the one that chooses to take those negatives & make them into positives. I know at the time that may seem an insurmountable task. Consider it a lesson in compassion & empathy-some of those substitutes do not come from all the advantages some of us have had,but they still deserve to be treated & respected as human beings-after all they are trying their best & attempting to make a living for themselves,which is more than I can say for the 47% in our country who want to live off others to "support" themselves. Have faith,this will be a learning experience of a different kind -it's "real life"

Lyssa-

When people are
- angry (as it is VERY apparent you are from your comment)
- tired ( it was 12:04 in the morning)
- drunk (example, Mel Gibson),
they often say things they wish they had not and wish they could take them back.

Those same people apologize and try to explain that they really meant to say something else, or say that's not what I really meant.
Sometimes no spin can fix what is written or taped.

What you said is definitely code for saying the "n" word.
And it is reflective of what the teachers have done on their FB page "wall of shame" regarding the pictures of the subs and deleted comments. Those same teachers you idolize.

I know you regret saying it - but you did.

Lyssa,
I'm proud to say,some of you young people have taught alot of we "old folks" alot too. I admire the fire & passion you have for that which you believe in. It' hard to make informed comments when one side or the other in this issue won't show all their cards so to speak. The teachers keep saying there are unfair items we taxpayers just don't now about-well, then tell us so we can "understand"! Apart from that it basically comes down to one main issue & that alone-there just isn't the money to fund all they want.I know they are used to great perks that they received when times were good & they don't want to give them back.But times are not good financially in our country & won't be for a long while,if ever again. We just don't know.What we do know ,from experience,is that when you don't have money,you can't spend money.That's all the board is trying to do,keep us fiscally sound. It is a hard job that no one likes. Don't the teachers think that if there was $ the BOE would do what it could? After all,it's in their best interests(and all of ours) to have good ,efficient teachers that keep our district excellent. Alot of the frustrations of many have brought out the ugliness-being constantly asked for more money to throw at a broken system when most have given all they can & are struggling to keep their heads above water. This coupled w/the issues of unions that don't even represent the best interests of all teachers-they "sacrificed" the jobs of some of their fellow....

....teachers in the past,so that they could keep their jobs & benefits-is that fair? NO! Unions,at one time had a purpose & usefulness-they have no place in todays society,especially as it pertains to education/teachers. It's a very difficult situation & everyone has their own opinion, but please examine both side & try to understand both sides. At some point something will have to give because we can't go on like this .

Lyn-- I don't regret what I said, I just wish I worded it differently. If you want to read between the lines, fine. I can't stop you. I know I didn't mean it in a racist manner and frankly I don't care if you think otherwise. I'm not here to argue about race. I'm here because I deserve better; especially from people like you.

Beverly-- Thank you for your intelligence and understanding attitude