Emmanuel...people are cutting u some slack here bc ur a student, but you really need to stop basing your arguments on emotion and please go take a look at the real numbers...and understand that the current compensation system is no longer sustainable, no matter what anyone thinks, says or believes. Facts are facts.

Emmanuel,
It is commendable that you want to present the students side. I realize that this will be hardest on the high school students, especially those close to graduation. I'm sorry it has to be this way - and I hope that before tonight is over the two sides will come to a resolution that we all can live with.

As you are not a tax payer (property owner type) you cannot understand the full dynamics of the situation.

I hope that the information you have is from the board and not from teachers who say this will happen. Of course in the beginning there is no way that the board can get enough teachers to cover all of them. So it would stand to reason that classes will be condensed to just the basics. But I believe, as happens in most strikes, there will be teachers who cross their own picket line. These are dedicated professionals who are not union minded.

You need to put pressure on the teacher just as much as the board to find a resolution that the tax paying public can afford, as it hurts the students the most when they don't figure this out.

I don't see that the board is asking for anything so unreasonable. First you have to look at other contracts - our teachers make very good money as far as teachers go. No not every teacher makes 80K but many do and those that do not are younger, - they will make that eventually or can when they get 20 years and the education.

They have not taken big cuts. Read their contract.

@Myron
There are alternatives to settling the dispute. A lot of people have criticized the tenure program the teachers have. I kind of agree that some teachers get paid too much while a lot of them suffer.

@Elsie
I'm hoping for some sort of middle ground. Not pro board, and not necessarily pro teacher. Maybe leaning on the teacher side, but that is about it. The union is there to bargain for their demands. When you make a demand, you usually place it high so you can argue it down to a decent point.

Before the strike, I've heard teachers talking about how their pay can't just keep going down and down. So I honestly doubt they haven't taken cuts before. I also COMPLETELY assure you that their medical bills have gone.

@lyn
A majority of the classes like Chemistry and Languages seem safe. If some classes are cut, I actually wouldn't mind (electives for example). Get the important classes first, then pay for others if money is left behind.

yes when negotiating for something like a car we start low and the dealer starts high. But if the deal is never agreeable we can walk away. Not here. The tax payers cannot walk away and hire a different school system. What happens when there is no middle ground? This is what we have now. No middle ground so we have a strike to force a middle ground to appear.

And teachers have had raises if they are on their step schedule. If they are at the top then they have not gotten a raise. Look your teachers up on one of the salary sites. Buckeye or the auditor's transparency project. You will see no teacher has had a reduction in salary. Some have stayed stagnet but none have gone down. They can't it is ORC that no public employee can have a reduction in salary unless it is part of a reduction that affects the entire organization equally. So someone has lied to you. Also look up your principal - he hasn't gotten a raise since 2009 either nor have many of the other staff like custodians who are at the top of their pay scale. What you were told is simply not true.

Emmanuel, if there are alternatives to settling this dispute that do not include the items i've mentioned, please tell me what these alternatives are. Because the only things you will be able to list are items that are completely attached to the students themselves (lunches, textbooks, programs, sports, etc.) There are no other options without restructuring the tax payer funded employee benefit compensation system that is currently in place. You can say there are, but it doesn't make it true until you list them.

Lyn, I think these most of these teachers do care about the students, but they probably care for their own children more. If they are in fear that they will not be able to provide what they feel their own kids need because of the contract offer, then they have the right to strike. No teacher wants to strike, but perhaps they feel it is the only way they can have one last chance to stay in the job they love while still supporting their own families. Unfortunately, the students will suffer in the short term, but these teachers and their families could be feeling the impact of this contract for the rest of their career. I don't agree with how everything has been done (as my recent silence will attest) but I do feel badly for all involved. This is a terrible situation and there will be no winner. Not the BOE, the teachers, the kids, or the taxpayers. It's the middle class vs the middle class and politicians won't be happy until we all destroy each other.

Holly-
When you quit posting, I figured it was your silent disapproval of the teachers actions, which I understand but don't agree with. It would have been nice to hear another teachers voice express their unhappiness with their conduct.

I guess I am just at the point now where the whole thing saddens me. i will admit to having an attachment to this city. I grew up here, my parents live here, I just had a child that I also want to grow up here. I know that when damage this great happens in a school district and community that it takes a long time for those wounds to heal.

I can not speak for all teachers, only myself. I understand that with the way schools are funded that there is only so much money to go around. It's a math problem, and money doesn't grow on trees. Problems are so much more easily solved when the two parties involved work together, and that is simply not happening here. I don't know whose fault it is, doesn't really matter. You would just hope that a group of professional adults could have stopped it from getting to this point. I just pray to God that I never have to go through this myself.

Holly -
I don't know if you saw Elsies comment on the other article about the offer that the union turned down.
Check it out.
It really wasn't that bad considering the economic times. Its much better than what I thought the BOE would offer.

No, I didn't see it. I will try and look for it. So many comments I have been having trouble keeping up! We had parent-teacher conferences this week so I missed a couple nights of catching up on posts. I am curious to see if Elsie's comment matches some of the rumors I have heard. There are so many rumors by this point it's hard to fish out the facts anymore.

Holly-
tom just posted a link to the actual "last best offer"- see bottom of page

Lyn did they seriously turn that down

Lyn, found it. I had actually heard similar things, but I heard they were eliminating some of the steps for further education. If they did that in my district, that would mean a $10,000 pay cut for me and I would NOT be happy about that. The things Elsie mentioned I could live with. That is why I am just thinking there has to be more to the story. There is something that is not being told to us. I don't think it would come to a strike over what was published.

I had a chance to look at the "last best offer" (thanks for posting it Tom) and I see why they are up in arms - 2 things stick out.
1. Looks like from the language that was crossed out that they were promised they would be able to renew step increases with this contract and that was gone back on. This must be the root of the lifetime pay freeze rumor that was out there.

2. What is really the problem is not the money, but the fact that this contract throws seniority completely out the window and makes the new determiner actual evaluations. I have seen some preliminary info on these new evaluations and there are still WAY too many kinks in the program to be hinging peoples jobs on it. I bet this is what they are really upset about.

Personally, if I thought the evaluation program was fair, I would be fine with canning the whole seniority thing (remember, a big reason I am not teaching in Strongsville now is because I was low man on the totem pole). I can tell you though, this evaluation program has a LONG way to go before it's even close to fair.

I have a girl in my class that comes to school once a week if I'm lucky and a dozen others that maybe come twice a week. How can I be judged on the test scores of kids I don't even have access to? This is only the beginning of the problems with this evaluation system they are talking about.

Tracy-
Yes. See Debbie's most recent article.

It's not their choice! Who the hell do they think they are. It's time their high and mighty attitudes go away. They are being assenine. They have taken NO bit cuts. They were pissed the last time when they had to pay 10% of their medical. Grow up! They may not all be making $80,000 but they aren't exactly anywhere near poverty level.

I'm not understanding this either. Why would it be their choice. If a child earns a grade then that is their grade. The teachers choose not to be in the classroom. Again the students suffer.

Just so you know, the ones who make $80K have a Masters Degrere + 50 credit hours. That's the equivalent of a PHD without a dissertation. Do we question it when doctors make that much money?

actually they do have the authority to do that. as educators, they are responsible for their students grades. if they want to exempt a students work during the strike then they may exempt it at their discretion. if the board could just tell the teachers what to do with their grades like that, then they could also tell the teachers to give a student a 40% on a test that he or she earned a 90% on. Administrators may not dictate how a teacher grades.

Doesn't there have to be some uniformity on that? All 4th grade teachers teaching math can't grade differently? If the sub gives the district test and the kids are graded on that test how can the grade be taken away from the student just because the teacher didn't give the test?
It is very poor on their part to hold the students grades hostage just to get a pay raise. I could understand if they made poverty level salaries but they don't they make good money.

If you think about it, taking a freeze IS a paycut. Three reasons why

1) They're taking a cut from their next year's salary.
2) Inflation causes the dollar value to shrink down in value, essentially making that same salary worth less.
3) Teachers have been required to pay more out of their pocket for insurance.

Emmanuel

The contract has them paying 150 a month toward insurance. Today in most other jobs that is basically nothing. Their contract has only a 300 deductible. That means they pay the first 300 and then the rest is covered. This is a very good very expensive policy. I don't knock it, but most of the rest of us are paying 400 to 500 a month for insurance with deductibles in the thousands.

It is only a cut (loss) if they are on the steps. If they are at the top it makes no difference.

Yes, inflation does cause the dollar to not go as far. Hence the problem. Inflation is not suffered by teachers alone - your parents and the rest of society is suffering due to inflation too. We don't have those extra dollars anymore to pay for someone elses retirement; insurance or salary steps. Our dollars are not going as far either. Our salaries are also worth less.

Thank you Elise I could not have said it better than myself

"...may not have went up." ??? Hey, you could be an English teacher, no problem.

But they don't know that the kids will be coloring and doing nothing. You can't uniformily make a decision that no grades during this time will be counted because someone crossed your picket line. The district I believe would be responsible for the grades in this situation not the teacher. What happens when a teacher is sick for a long period of time - doesn't the sub's grades count then. Wouldn't the teachers name still be on the record in any situation where the teacher is out?

When my children were in school they had subs and those subs sometimes did not "teach" the same as their teacher did. My children still got grades. If teachers are concerned with the quality of the education then they need to be in their classrooms come Monday morning doing their job. And really, when it comes down to it it is only high school where this would matter - for college admittance. No one cares when you are an adult that you had a sub in 4th grade for a quarter of the year.

I agree and accept that if the teachers choose to stay out on strike the teaching will be less than what we have now. It has to be for a short while until the district can find better replacements. Emergency replacements in any strike are not as good as the regular employees in any field. This has to be expected. Parents need to accept this and be prepared to keep up the lessons until better replacements come or the teachers settle. We will live through this.

There are qualified, licensed special education teachers who do not have full-time jobs in this area.

Yes...you should never trust a teacher. Should we trust the carnival ride operators the board shipped in yesterday? Apparantly, "Do you have all your teeth?" wasn't on the application.

Candid-

Apparantly ????

And who just said above " Hey, you could be an English teacher, no problem."

Myron-
I didn't think of that!
Keep the subs on until the end of the school year and they give out the final grades. No problem then!

And, that gives lots of time to find some good quality replacements.

Then, I think we owe it to these new replacements to reassure them that they are valued and welcome them with open arms and tell them that it is not teachers that we have a problem with - just this last bunch of bad apple.
A couple of open houses,...

Open house...I like that. Let the parents meet their new teachers (dispel propaganda of them being criminals, thieves, etc). Also, keep an open, no hard feelings invite to any teacher who wants their job back that is striking. I don't know if its possible, but I'd love to provide financial incentive for teachers willing to come back to work at schools during strike. Probably not but if it were, SEAs blood would boil and there would definitely be squabbling amongst the ranks.

Yes-
I wonder if that would even be possible to do this week to do, as you said, to reassure parents. I don't know if possible, but if the new subs would be willing to be there for a couple of hours to be in their classrooms for the parents to meet and talk - that would really smooth things over and make them feel better. Parents could go from classroom to classroom to see the different ones that their kids have.

"No problem". "WE'LL just make sure that teachers . . ."
This is the best yet, Mr. Got Rocks Shibley is now running the show for the BOE.

Justine, if I were running the show for BOE this situation wouldn't even be happening. I could care less if every single person hated me, if you hire me to be realistic and fix the inherent structural problems w/in the compensation system, that's what I'm doing. I wouldn't be there to make friends or enemies, but fix problems. So, the strike prob would have already been over or still ongoing bc I would have told the SEA from day 1...there will be zero compromise on removing tax payer funded employee pensions and instituting an employee health care premium contribution that is on par w private sector. That's where we start. I wouldn't even sit down until that was accepted. Then we can talk raises, instituting a merit based pay system, etc.

LOL : that's a great idea!

Teachers already have a choice whether or not to be part of the union. They have a choice between membership or "fair share".

yes, but do you actually consider paying union dues or paying a fair share fee (both to the union) a real "choice?" I, and many others, do not. Wouldn't an actual choice be NO FEE (dues, or whatever you may call it) if employee elects to not receive union representation, benefits, terms, etc?

Its really not a choice, more of a statement that they don't believe in unionism. To be a true choice the state has to be a "right to work," state. Ohio has a high union membership - higher than average due to the type of industries here. (steel, auto) Unions are loosing ground everyday they need to take notice and change how they go about their business.

It's a better choice than what we could have. The alternative to this is for us to become a "right to work" state. This has been shown to have a negative impact on the salaries and safety of ALL employees in the state.
Not to mention that these states don't just spend less on teachers, they also spend less on students and have terrible test scores. Most states in the south are "right to work" and we all know the reputation of their schools.

If they do settle, I hope the Board does not negotiate away the lawsuit. The teachers actions were deplorable.
And, if any teachers violated any policy, in or out of the classroom, that should be pursued as well.

Now that was funny.

I do think followup on the teacher violations, all of them, should still continue. Especially the one they filed suit on. Its not like it was a childish prank committed by a teenager that could be dismissed with an apology.
It was a serious matter, that should be taken seriously. There are certain things that should not be ignored - and physical matters is one of them.

If there is a concern over the district having to incur the costs, I wonder if they can seek the legal fees as part of the damages from the union - that is, the union reimbursing for the district's legal fees. I don't know if that can be done with THIS type of lawsuit. But, in some cases, the defendant would be responsible for those fees if the other party were to prevail.

Emmanuel - If the Union is found guilty, The Board can ask The Court to award them legal fees and court costs. Thus, The Union would have to pay all court costs (filing, etc.) and legal fees. The problem is that The Union has a contract that puts a stranglehold on any legal recourse available to The Board & The Taxpayers.
So, The Union & most "Educators" do not believe that they are accountable to anyone but themselves. This creates a huge amount of animosity between "Educators" and The Citizens - Can you imagine paying someone's pay & benefits, and having them tell you that they don't have to report to you? In the private sector, such action = termination.

My husband and I were talking about the fact that they had 250 lined up a few days ago. We figured that with only 1 school preparing to strike in the state, that there are plenty of teachers around who have applied. For example, there could be recent graduates living in Columbus who would be willing to temporarily relocate - and maybe it could even be someone who went to Ohio State and is from the area, so they could live with mom and dad. If they are unemployed or underemployed, at $875 for a job in their field, it might be worth it. That's just one possible situation - there could be plenty. But, for anyone who is unemployed, its worth it to rent a room to earn $875/week no matter where you are from in the state. So, I don't think they necessarily have to be the bottom of the barrel. As you said, you were once here as a teacher and moved on to another job, but that didn't mean by any stretch of the imagination that you were not a good, or even great teacher.
Glad your back on here. I was hoping you'd come back - I mentioned your name with the hope you were out there listening - even though we don't agree on some things.

You're kidding, right? You haven't seen the number of teacher layoffs in this area?

Many can't land a permanent position because they aren't cheap fresh-outs.

Sad, yes, but what relevance is that to the current situation. Does knowing that information "create" money that wasn't there before that statement was made? This is what the problem is. People keep looking backward, talking about deals, concessions, "increase vs raise," structural implementations that this side started, what the teachers gave up, yada yada yada. IT DOESN'T MATTER!!!! How is this not sinking in? Let's deal with the reality, right now. You can tell me until you are blue in the face that in 2005, the SEA made a deal to take 10% less in salary in exchange for a 4% increase in pension. WHO CARES!!! It does nothing to fix this. Current situation (last time I'm doing this): Nearly the entire current school budget is consumed by teacher salary and benefit compensations (pension/healthcare). That is unsustainable, as that number will continue to grow larger (already projected to be in red in 2014). No tax dollars are coming in. Period. If we do not restructure tax payer funded employee benefits/compensation, then please let me know, where will this money be coming from? Lunches? No more busing? I'm not trying to be rude here, but how do you not see that all that matters is what is on the table right now??? Either accept the fact that the current system is unsustainable and work out a new way of compensation or strike and you will most likely lose your job. If the BOE settles without fixing these issues, I'll be first one calling them.

Looks good to me. Glad to see what the board was holding out for and glad they stuck to their guns. Love the idea of merit.

Nope. Got the wrong Myron. The only "classes" I've ever instructed were a few hired investment speaking engagements . Of course everyone wants to know about the next "Google" and how I and others were able to read the market correctly.

WOW! These are more violations!
I suggest everyone have their phones ready and on - recording as you approach and walk by these people.

I think I remember you posting that you and your husband had both lost your job over the last year. If these people don't want their job, you are a perfect example of someone who should apply for one.

But you should not have to go through this abuse.
And teachers should not behave like this.

Are the teachers still acting like a mob?
If so, where?

Thank you for registering and I am sorry you had to go through that. Not sure where your kids are enrolled but the bus may be the safest option to get them to school. Since the mob will be spread out tomorrow it might be less crazy and hopefully the sane teachers will keep the out of control ones managed. I would think as a professional educator you would not want your students to see you act in an uncivilized manner.

Laura, this is unbelievable. I cannot believe how low these people have stooped. Thank you for registering to sub and I hope to God that you are hired permanently; replacing one of these animals.

the "good" teachers at this point are just keeping to themselves but are about to fall victims to the same scenario as those in the "charge of the Light Brigade "

look BobS is back .....lets see some of his other posts

take it away BOB S

Bob S
WAKE UP !! board makes money and keeps money, when teachers are on strike, fights and drug use go up 700 % , you will see, it will be a disaster, due to the boards not willing to take care of the teachers that work 60 - 100 hours per week,
Bob S
they are going to Kitco, the company that sells knives door to door looking for teachers, you will see, I fear for the kids and the families,
Bob S
The school, won't get any subs, they will get scabs that can carry criminal backrounds, no substitute will cross the line in their right mind, I hope the students aren't hurt, may prayers go the families of the students and hope they are safe with the scabs.
Bob S
you are wrong the board is the enemy, the school will be a disaster due to the board, not willing to pay for excellent teachers, just because you are jealous you flip burgers, you get what you pay for, if you want good teachers you pay them, each scab will make almost $ 200 a day, so why don't you hate on them,
Bob S
Lyn go shove a Banana in your month , you nasty jealous burger flipper !

So this is a give the teacher anything they want SEA supporter

So, that "banana" comment is still up and hasn't been deleted?
(yeah, that's what he meant to shove)

Lyn...not sure this was a cut and paste of bobs greatest hits

Just looked.
That banana comment is still there.
I flagged it, don't normally do that - usually let the "lyn bashing" fly, but I thought that was offensive. We'll see if Debbie deletes it.

Mr. K is not putting the kids at risk. Given the behavior of these teachers this week; it's going to be a welcome change to have subs in there. I hope they're hired permanently to replace the animalisic behavior that's been displayed. And... a million isn't enough to pay Mr. K for what he's been putting up with.

Hey Bob S. so I see you are a teacher. Your comments just reinforced what is being said THAT SOME OF THE TEACHERS ARE SCARING OUR CHILDREN BY SAYING THAT THUGS, CONVICTS, PEDOPHILES, ETC, ARE THE SUBSTITUTE TEACHERS THAT WILL BE HIRED. WHAT A HORRIFIC LIE. YOU SHOULD BE FIRED !!!!!!!!
QUIT SCARING OUR CHILDREN. What, me vote for another school levy. NOT A CHANCE OF A SNOWBALL IN HELL.

WOW...... LOL ....10 points for you Mr McEntee

What's going to happen at 3?

Hi Ken,

I'm not privy to anything, but that was the time referenced by the teacher who was texting students to come join them at the City Hall.

Good - Its about time someone starts reporting their disgusting, lowlife behavior.

I read the first couple of comments and had to laugh when a read someone supporting the teachers that said "you haven't looked at their pay for the last 5 years have you? Learn a little before you put down." Guess this person hasn't learned ANYTHING themselves to comment with that message.

Maybe these thugs are practicing for Monday. They do need to get use to standing out in the cold. Hope we have a few good blizzards. Then some good rainy showers in April.

LYN ....all the people who were very well dressed were saying the teachers are acting childish ....but the only person thinking the teachers deserve a raise used her diploma and now works in a donut shop

A Masters Degree is no longer required as of 2010, but continued education is still needed to maintain/renew your teaching license every 5 years. The minimum requirement is 6 hours. Since this is the case most people choose to just go for a masters since it makes you more employable rather than buying empty credit hours that don't go toward a degree or add anything to your qualifications. I got my Masters degree in educational administration, though I have decided to stay in the classroom despite being encouraged to step over to the "other side".

The contract the BOE offered would not give the teachers a pay increase for credit hours earned. Since the teachers must pay for these to maintain a license and thereby their job, this could be viewed as a pay cut of sorts as well.

Thanks again, Holly, for the info.
But be very careful.
I just got ripped a new one for just saying "6 hours" instead of "6 credit hours", even though I was just commenting on the same info she had supplied also. Should have been apparent, but I was technically wrong. She didn't catch when I said "over 5 hours" instead of "over 5 years" - hours on the brain!
People are getting testy on here!!

Holly-
As most professionals in several professions have to get continuing education hours to maintain their license, simply because its required to maintain THEIR OWN professional license, I don't understand why ANYONE should expect to be reward financially for doing this.
And then to even complain that professionals need to pay for this on their own and feel someone else should pay for someone to maintain THEIR professional status, I think that is unprofessional, to say the least.
If that is a big sticking point, I think they are still asking for too much, and if they got this before, it was a gift, IMO.

You are right Lyn, I did mean 6 credit hours (I know there are some people on here that are big on semantics).

As for compensation for maintaining the license...I am certainly not versed on how this works in every job, especially since many don't require a license per se, but I do know that when I worked in the private sector all of this type of thing would have been reimbursed at the very least. Many companies will pay for this because additional training means that the employee can accept more responsibility and be a greater asset to the company. I do believe this is true for teachers as well. Having a greater understanding of ones chosen field and the many aspects that it includes (technology, administration, special education, curriculum) not only improves the quality with which one is able to teach, but it also allows teachers to pay it forward by mentoring newer, less experienced teachers and sharing some of their knowledge. Unquestionably teachers should have some sort of incentive for learning and growing in their profession and not everyone has the means to take courses for self actualization alone. We need our kids to have teachers that continue to grow. Since many good teachers end up leaving the classroom after earning an advanced degree, this compensation is something that keeps teachers like me from leaving the classroom to pursue higher paying jobs in administration, which have less direct impact on student learning and success.

Exactly, spoiled brats. If a kid works hard, he does not get the grade that he earned. Or better yet, a kid may chose to read this and determine that he can do nothing until the teachers come back.

You are absolutely correct. There are teachers that really care about our children. And they have said it (in private) that they do not want this strike. So, what can they do?