And our first born children! And season tickets to the Browns games! The nerve!

I don't believe they are asking for an additional $15,000. They have an early retirement incentive that pays them $13,000 for each of 3 years after they retire and they want it increased to $15,000 for each of those 3 years. The entire incentive is a little extra that should simply go away. Their retirement system is changing and they are going to retire in droves very soon anyway.
They also get paid for doing voluntary professional work of some kind. Great gig, volunteer then add to your pay for years. They also only teach 5 periods per day where most other schools have teachers teach 6 periods per day, this adds more teachers to the rolls (Cha Chinnggg !!) They get full time benefits, full time sick day allotment, full time salary +++, if they do ANYTHING extra they get paid for it, and only work 184 days a year. Other schools have 186, 188 or even 190 days in a teachers schedule so the"waiver days" are part of the plan and kids don't lose time in school.
Everybody deserves a fair paycheck for hard work, however let's be reasonable with asking for all of those extras that add to costs that the taxpayer just can't afford anymore.

Joe I agree with you. It is not about not respecting the profession it is about what we can afford now. Many industries have had to change due to the economy and education is one of them. Other districts have taken cuts or changes in their health care. Strongsville has some very nice perks that are no longer affordable. One is the retirement incentive. The number of teachers is greatly reduced by this incentive and it has done its work - time to phase it out. The voluntary stipend of some sort is one that no other district has - nice but not the standard. Needs to go away. There are a lot of "deincentifying" items that could be negotiated to keep costs within the means of the district.

If you spent 38 years in a union then you should know better than to believe everything that management mouth-pieces say. The teachers have already given millions of dollars in concessions.

I'd like to know how much the foot-dragging by the board's lawyer is costing the district, those legal fees add up right quick.

sville senior - Well said!

Yeah - sometime when hell freezes over...

your just hiding your demand of a $15,000 per year raise

I heard they want our first born children and season tickets to the Browns games!

Sville teacher...oh, we definitely trust you. The union folks seem like real straight shooters. I know interviews I've read and seen on TV of union bosses have really built up a lot of faith that they are truly in it for the workers and in this case, the kids...never for the money. Who would ever think that they are hiding something? (insert sarcasm here). I do hope both sides agree to release the terms...but here's a spoiler alert...either way...the vast majority of the citizens will never support your union's demands and are sick of paying more money into a system that handles it so irresponsibly and has employees who feel that are "entitled" to publicly funded pensions of any percentage whatsoever.

By the way...ever bother asking what your union bosses/higher up's salary is and why they miraculously never have any of the money issues their teachers do?

well teacher that 15,000.00 they are asking for will erase that surplus pretty fast huh

Sville- that's fantastic news! Problem solved I guess. Have you bothered to take notice to what their unfunded liabilities are going to be in the next 3-5 years bc most of the revenues are going to be headed to funding public sector pensions or are you like most of our members of congress...short sighted and only looking at what's here right now? You and anyone else can spout off any fact/lie/halftruth, whatever. What this simply comes down to...THERE IS NO FREAKING MONEY TO GIVE YOU...no matter how much you complain, prop up kids on your lap, hold signs, chant mindless union-supplied slogans...whatever. The money STILL isn't going to be there. We're not passing levy's for a reason. The board, unions, etc. are being irresponsible with it. But simply pretending that the teachers unions demands for a publicly funded pension is not the biggest drag on the school budget and will continue to be in much larger terms, is just a dodge of the real issues.

Myron there will be some extra money soon ... 600 less kids enrolled in the last 2 years with about 25 less teachers it will free up some of that extra money for the teachers to grab up

In all honesty Sville Teacher, yes, I do believe 350+ teachers would do something even if they didn't believe in it. Why? Bc i have seen firsthand the strongarming that happens within a union if one does not "follow the herd." The brainwashing is literally unmatched anywhere but north korea. There is no "individuality" in a union. You can take that number from 350 to 350K...it is inconsequential. You are to do as your union leaders instruct when it comes down to it. Try to go against the tide and you will be threatened, harassed and bullied. They know what's best for the group...and why people continue to shell over there hard earned dollars to others to these snakes is beyond me.

SVille Teacher
so if there is a $2.5M surplus (or was) why can't you call for an audit of the books to make sure it was spent correctly.

...and why are some of them on the message board during the school day?

Craig it great to see that teachers visit you at your place of work !!! but on a side note you never gave me my fries with my food the other day

Hey Kim L,

Are you too ignorant to read the fact that I am attending Baldwin-Wallace or did you not get that far. I work because I have to pay for my car, phone, car insurance, as well as pay for school. As for my place of employment it is not McDonalds, teachers do not visit me, they simply come in and buy groceries. Next time read my entire post.

Well Craig in that case --- would you please stop putting the eggs on the bottom of the bag they keep getting crushed

Kim, your ignorance has shined through. I'm sorry I have to work for my education, I guess the value of hard work my mother taught me was wrong.

but these same teachers are about to go on strike at the beginning of state testing what kind of caring teachers are we talking about, will $15,000 a year more make them better teachers, or just richer ones

And as a parent of children in the district, I have been told no to help from teachers more times than I care to remember...and don't get me started on the teachers that just "go through the motions" and don't teach or who teach poorly. I have also encountered good teachers - but there are way too many who are skating on the coat tails of the good ones and complaints about those teachers go unresolved. I have been told by administration that their hands are tied because of the 'contracts'.

Kim, you may have had bad experience with the teachers, but I didn't. Your opinion about the teachers is your opinion, I wont dispute that. The part I fail to understand is why you feel it necessary to make comments towards me without having met me. I work my ass off everyday to provide for myself, because my parents can't. The teachers helped me along the way and I appreciate their help. Maybe not all teachers are equal, and I wont dispute that. I was trying to have a discussion about the teachers and their possible strike. I have friends and family that still attend the schools and it sucks that they will go on strike, but that has nothing to do with where or work, or what school I attend. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but you don't know me, or what I've been through

Kim, you should be ashamed.

I don't think all teachers are worth it. My daughter's teach should get a pay decrease!

that is disgusting and this teacher thinks they should be given "more planning time and manageable class sizes "

good catch

Sville Teacher-
You have completely wiped out any credibility your group has with your continuous posting doing school hours, when every teacher complains about how they don't have enough time to do all their tasks.
And, the one I like the best is not having time to go to the bathroom.
The more you teachers talk, the more you put your foot in your mouth.

Thank you Steve. I wouldn't wait by the phone. However, if you do find your retirement account a bit low on funding, I would consider giving you a high interest personal loan, as I agree with most of your comments.

Don't forget those snow days.

Amen!!!!

Joe Taxpayer, teachers do not get paid vacation. Our vacation time is obviously already generous and we are expected to be at work during all days that school is in session. You are permitted to take up to 5 unpaid days a year in my district, not sure about Strongsville.

I think you are a little off:

178 school days
2 waiver days (new)
0 paid holidays
4 professional days
They have the option to take 3 personal days; and 15 sick days. Not every teacher uses them.
The free period is additional "planning" time. 500 minutes total in a week. More than other districts. Though I think this was some sort of give back in the last contract - the give back did not include additional teaching duties.
I think we have to compare apples to apples and not to other professions to be accurate. Much of the above is standard in the teaching industry. The perks would be the higher planning time, prof dev stipends, 1 year notice on lay off, no limit on sick day accumulation, pick up payments, insurance premium rate, retirement incentive - hence why the union called the board's deal "deincentifying." They want to take away the incentives that the union negotiated in the past which keeps many good teachers in Strongsville. This is not just about teacher's overall, I believe the administrators and non teaching staff also have similar benefits.

this was not a issue of the replys this was about your 1 1/2 long block of free school time you have to be able to post 14 times and right off your website is one of the demands
• Enough time in the school day to plan lessons,--which you use all your planning time to post on the patch

I see sville teacher deleted her account

No Tom it was pretty clear it was a teacher posting and most of the comments that was posted by this teacher were very honest and to the point with no "pot stirring comments" and it was not the comments but the 1 1/2 hours during the school day (12:12 to 1:27) that made the teacher look bad
which they tried to make explain away on their last post before deleting all their posts

Seems like you and the Seville teacher have something in common...way too much time on your hands to post your non-sensical uneducated comments....step away from your computer and may I suggest you enroll in a yoga class.

Did you catch that they had to go back to a 7 year old article to try and discredit the strike security firm?

Like you said, they are trying to scare parents and children. Every move they make just makes me more disgusted with this bunch and their character. And, they have the nerve to question other people's professionalism after how they've conducted themselves?

Where do the teachers think the money they want will come from - take more from the kids?

I don't think the district can afford to give them a $15,000 raise.

these teachers have a lot of nerve demanding 15,000.00 more a year! there was a teacher posting earlier about being aloud to do whatever he wanted during his free period and was posting all afternoon

I am not sure where you heard the teachers were asking $15,000 raise. I think it is more like $1,500 per year.

Actually, it is quite possible that is what they could be asking for, if they would also be asking for the 10.2% retirement to be converted over to salary.

If that $15,000 would be for someone at the high end of the pay scale who now earns $80,869, then they might justify that $15,000 as -
$8249 (10.2% they might want converted)
$6751 (8.3% of $80,869 for a new bump - about the % Tracy got last time, per Buckeye)

But, its nice to be reading that so many other people, including those wanting to see the teachers get more, think this is a rumor because they, too, think the amount is more than is deserved - if this is true.

I guess we will just have to wait and see. I just can't help but think/hope that there is more to the story. I would be interested as well to see exactly what is being offered on both sides. I would like to think that a group of professionals could somehow work this out and avoid a strike, but it does take a good faith effort on both sides.

Here is one for 2012. It is most interesting the the teachers didn't need to give 10 days notice.. Page 6.
Also a lot more data about average salaries and health care.
http://www.ohioschoolboards.org/sites/default/files/2012HRMon3.pdf

Those sites were interesting. Lots of info.

And, as I quickly read over the average state cost, or cost savings, of the teachers going on strike after deducting the related replacement and security costs, based on the Nov.2010 report, it looks like:
-the breakeven point is after 3 days, at which point the average school is ahead $18,700/day
-but, this is based on an average state salary of $53,900 and for the 2010-11 year, Strongsville's average was $66,558
-the estimate is assuming 200 teachers

So, if we assume just $20,000 per day, then if they strike for 53 days - we save $1million (and the teachers collect no pay). And, that gives a good amount of time for the BOE to find permanent replacements for the strikers.
I doubt they will walk that long, but if they walk, they need to stay out at least 3 days for the district to lose no money due to the teachers decision to abandon their students.

Lyn,
So my question is can the teachers strike for 3 days, go back to work for a week, and then strike again for 3 days?
Lets be honest that there is no way the BOE will be able to find permanent replacements for all the teachers without the parents getting antsy at going to a board meeting with torches and pitchforks.
The other thing that is interesting is that with 600 or so school districts, maybe like 1 or so a year threatens to strike with maybe that one actually going on strike.

I doubt they can come back unless there is a contract. I think once they strike, they have walked out on their job and ceased the relationship until an agreement is reached.

Yeah, it would be hard to replace ALL the teachers. But I'm sure they could start replacing a few - especially the few they deem needing replaced.

Your last comment - I was also surprised at the the number of strikes, or should I say lack of numbers? Only 1 in 2012 in the state and the year before, 2 filed to strike but never did? Maybe I read that wrong.
So, I doubt these teachers want to look foolish walking, and they have exhibited they care too much about money to loose out on their paychecks. Can anyone imagine pointing to the 1 school in the entire state that did go on strike has teachers with one of the states highest average paid teachers? They would be a joke among their own.

Holly-
When I first read the young lady's comment and knew she really was a student, I went easy on her. And as I read some more harsh comments, my first reaction was "she's just a kid, and one who doesn't really know the real, adult world".
But then, as her comments started to contain rather derogatory statements, I thought, you know, she came on to this public forum to discuss the issues in an adult way and there should be no reason people really needed to treat her any differently than any other person or adult.
So, if these teenagers do come on here to discuss with adults, don't be surprised that an exchange occurs as others have among the adults on here. But, I know your next comment might be people are not all acting like adults - that is not the issue.

I read this comment just before I went to bed, but decided to wait until morning to reply. But, it looks like she realized the HUGE VIOLATION she committed shortly after posting and deleted the comment before I could point it out to her!

which would still make the "teachers with tenure" the highest paid in the region

are you saying that the posted teachers salary is actually 10% higher
do they do that in North Royalton, Berea, and Brecksville too

YES!! YES!!! YES!!!
They don't call it salary and thus the argument over words or how its referred to.
But if Teacher A earns $80,000 and pays their normal 10.2% ($8160) into retirement, they are net $71,840.
If a Strongsville teacher earns $71,840, they do NOT pay any amount into their own retirement - so they are also net $71,840.
So, since only less than 5% of Ohio districts do it the way Strongsville does, when people look at charts of what teachers make for comparison, it looks like our teachers make less than that Teacher A - $8,160 less, when actually, NOT!
From a 2 year old article, it said something like 29 out of 619 districts (going from memory, might be off) do it our way, and only 3 are in the Cleveland area. I guess its us, Berea and ???

That was a YES to your first question.

Lin,
Your information is a bit off below – I can’t post to a reply for some reason.
If a district agrees to any increase the 14% paid on the salary would also go up.
An 80,000 salary costs the district 14% (11,200), plus the pick up of 9.3 (7,440); plus Pick up on the Pick us at 1% of the 7,440 (74). NOTE: The teachers pay .7 of their pickup now. Total cost to the Board = $98,714. On the other hand to give a 9.3% raise to base salary and the teachers paying their pick ups the cost to the Board is 80,000 plus 9.3% raise (7,440) = 87,440 plus 14% of the new salary is (12,242) for a total cost to the Board of $99,682. This creates an increase to the Board and taxpayers of $968 per 80,000 salary. Now when you compute that over a 20 million plus dollar salary budget (not sure of the real total this is an example) the increase to the tax payers is enormus to compensate the teachers at 9.3. To create a wash for the Board with no increase in overall salary costs they cannot give a raise any more than 8.2% to absorb the difference between what they would pay on the 14% required on their part.

I'll respond in pieces as this system cannot take over 1500 characters.

Now that that same senerio for the teachers. A teacher making 80,000 per year pays .7 (560) of the pickup from their salary. They net 79,440. Giving them a 9.3% raise on the 80,000 equals a salary of $87,440 of which they would now pay 10% pick up at 8,744 and 1% of the pick up at $87 for a net of $78,609 or a loss of $831 per year to the teacher’s net. I would think that this is their beef and why they want 10.2 (really it should be 10.4) to produce no loss to their net.
Paying the pick-up was not done purely in lieu of a raise it was also cost savings for Boards that were struggling financially to compensate their staffs in order not to lose them to other districts with more money. Strongsville in the early 90’s couldn’t pass a levy to save their shirt, so this was a creative legal remedy that many districts employed.

See the article below for explanation:
“Clifford said pension pickups, which are not taxed, can be more economical for a district than pay.
“For districts that do this like we do, it’s less expensive to pay the pickup than to give them an increase in salary,” Clifford said. “If you give them an increase in salary, the board is still required to pay 14 percent of their salary. Fourteen percent on a smaller (salary) is better than 14 percent on a higher salary.”
One solution in this article:
Springboro Community City Schools decided to phase out pension pickups over three years after that was recommended by the Ohio State Auditor’s Office during a performance audit. The district, which had been paying 10 percent at a cost of roughly $167,000 per year, is paying 6.33 percent in 2012 and 3.33 percent for 2013 and will not offer pension pickups as of 2014.
This will save the district thousands because, instead of increasing salaries, Springboro offered administrators five to seven more unrestricted days off.”
http://www.daytondailynews.com/news/news/local/districts-still-spend-millions-on-pensions-1/nPhXy/

In the 1990's paying the pickup was a creative win win negotiation strategy. Today it just doesn't make sense due to the economy being the way it is and now that most people who pay taxes have to save for their own retirement via 401K etc. Since SS will not cover but basic expenses. To get rid of it will be expensive for both sides - the Board just cannot keep compensating their staff this way any longer if they want to gain any credibility with the tax payers who are their financial means of support.

We as tax payers are not employers - the elected Board is the employer. Public Education is the responsbility of taxpayers - a duty owed to society to fund the future education and in turn the success of the nation dictated by law. The Board is responsible to the tax payers to manage those funds efficiently and effectively. The duty the Board owes (as well as teachers) is only to students in the form of an education. Due to tax structures, that none of us here has any control over, the quality of that education in a district is based on the value the individual city tax payers is willing to pay for. Supply vs demand and the minimum requirements of the law (Ohio Department of Education). If we want something better for Strongsville kids we have to pay for it is some way. The best and brightest teachers will not work in Strongsville for low pay. I'm not saying our pay is low - it is good. No one wants to loose what they have. We all hem and haw at that.

Elsie-
I think I follow what you are saying...
But, as I understand it, the district is NOW paying 10.2% for the teachers share and according to the teacher rumor, the board is only offering them 9.3%, and I assume they would be offering this lesser amount because of what you are speaking of, that the conversion will cost the district more when they have to pay the districts own 14% of this conversion amount.

But when the teacher complains about wanting that 10.2% instead of the 9.3% they DO actually need more to put them at the same net, since they will have to pay 10.2% now on the pick up amount that was being converted.
I was saving that little tidbit for when another cried about wanting the exact same 10.2%, and then say it looks like they need some good math teachers who know simple algebra.

Elsie-
Here is a link I had given a while back that also discusses this same subject:
http://www.mansfieldnewsjournal.com/article/20100927/NEWS01/9260332/Schools-perk-pads-pensions

Hopefully this will go in the right spot. Lyn, the board actually pays 9.3 now. Teachers pay .7% it is in their contract. I tried to look the contract up online at SERB but for some reason, rather mysteriously, it is missing from the list. The OAPSE one is there for the schools and all the city contracts with their employees, but the teacher one has been removed. Maybe due to their mediation status. From what I remember the teachers contract clearly stated the board pays 9.3% pick up and then the pick up on the pick up which is 1% additional of the total 10% amount. Not sure where 10.2 is coming from. That's why this poster is quoting the 9.3% as that is all the board actually pays. They must not understand their salary structure. I do work in finance - and tutor math. This is something I do understand. It does equate to a pay cut, but it also equates to a greater overall cost to the board and tax payers too.

Just like those in other unions that had salaries out of wack with the economy they have to come down. Nothing against the profession of teaching, - they are important members of society - but like blacksmiths or shorthand users or many trades when society no longer needs it or the needs of society change so does the compensation for that profession. This is simple economics. Nothing personal. No one likes a pay cut especially since everything else is going up - but sadly it has to happen to teachers and everyone else in the education industry.

This article you posted from Mansfield is exactly right. It is a hidden benefit from the taxpayers. Since it doesn't increase the 14% the board pays this creates a savings as well. A win win situation financially - and a benefit to the individual. With how retirement savings has changed over the years it no longer can be supported as the rest of us have to save for ourselves - this "compensation" sticks out like a sore thumb. People just don't understand it. Really, the board should not give any increase and the employees (all of them get this) should pay it. Maybe it would be easier if it was done over time in three years like it was granted. It would be easier on employees to take the reduction in net pay. You know they did get a salary percentage increase along with this when it was first enacted. I'm pretty sure they got a 4 or 5 % raise on top of getting the pickup back in the early 1990's.

Elsie-
Having a hard time finding where these comments are on this page...
Here we go...

You might be right on the 9.3%. I have only seen comments related to the 10.2% for this year. And, even the teacher on here seem to think its 10.2%.

It was my understanding that it had been previously at 10%. And now, a cap of 10.2% for the BOE's contribution for the teachers share this year, because of the teachers share increasing yearly by 1% until its at 14%. That 10% amount has always been the % people have talked about, even before these latest talks.

From the STRS website:

Increase in Member Contributions Beginning July 1, 2013

Increase member contributions by 4%, phased in 1% per year beginning July 1, 2013, through July 1, 2016
Members will contribute 14% of their salary to STRS Ohio beginning July 1, 2016. Currently, members contribute 10%.
https://www.strsoh.org/legislation/legislation.html
---------------
The board part has always been 14%. After 2016 both will contribute 14%. Right now the board pays 9.3% and the teachers pay .7% which equals the 10%.

You are correct it will be going up in the future for the teachers half.

Bully? Interesting.... Very hypocritical..wouldn't you say? I am not against opposing views...we all certainly have a right to our own opinion. I have read them all. Opinions should be supported with accurate information, not angry responses and fabricated lies. I am not a "co-worker" in the SSD..see? Inaccurate information, or shall we say assumption. I have now wasted approx. 2 min. of my life that I will never get back responding to your post. I just have to remind myself " one cannot argue with stupid"

Linda but the problem with you is, so far you have given NO opinions or views about the topics, only thrown about various insults
a Wise man also named murphy said it best
“Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.”
So linda your future comments will not responded by myself, but I will repeat this quote along with a warning, that it will be futile to discuss anything with you due to your childishness

Strongsville teachers are members of the SEA which is their local union, OEA which is the state level organization, and NEA which is the national organization.

They are not affiliated with the OFT or AFT.

Hey Holly-
Just a little "love-fest" comment for your ears only, since it might astound others that I do have a heart-
You once said something like, if I met you, I'd probably like you. Yeah, well... you are probably right. You seem somewhat open minded to others views and usually don't just lash out because you disagree. I have strong opinions and state them, and try to back up those same statements when possible. So, I just want you to know that I wish we had teachers more like you here. Berea is lucky to have you and your kind of attitude is probably one reason that your district doesn't have the same problems we do here.
OK? Maybe I'll have to delete this when all the negative comments follow.

Thanks Lyn. I am a passionate person too so I certainly don't fault you for having yours. I realize that this is a very complicated issue and I do understand some of the feelings of the taxpayers (as I am one as well). I am just sorry that this has all become such a mess. I truly love my job and a lot of this stuff scares the bejesus out of me! I have many years to go and I wonder what my profession will look like when I reach the end of the road. It already looks so different than when I began 13 years ago. I don't need to live in luxury, and I am not going to ask for more than the people can give, however, there will come a point (if things continue this way) where I will have to consider if it's all worth it. It is a very difficult job and I have emotional ties to my students, families in the community, and co-workers, but there is a breaking point for everyone. I just hope that things don't get so bad that I reach that point. I do think that I am good at my job and I feel bad that those that perhaps aren't have left so many thinking that there are no longer people like me out there teaching. We are out here, just don't forget about us.

Holly-
People have asked what my job is. I have chosen to not answer that - it is not relevant. But I will tell you, and only you (ha-ha), that I have worked near both ends of the job market, for lack of a better way to put it. With my education, I worked in the field I was educated and I am a licensed PROFESSIONAL, and still keep my license current. But I left that position many years ago. Then, after getting bored with golf and shopping, I took what I thought would be an easy, stressfree JOB. This was an hourly job I held for many years, and was paid much less than what my education would enable me to receive. And, guess what - that job that paid much less than what I was earning before had more stress, and the profession I was in previously was a very demanding one with constant deadlines and a heavy workload. But, I also weighed the few benefits against it - hours, proximity to home,...
After I left that job, I decided to move on and... that's enough info.
So, I know what it is like to live without having to watch every penny AND also what it is like to learn to live a much happier life with less. Why do people need that bigger home and newer car? Do they even remember how they grew up and how their parents lived? So, I'm quite comfortable now - but not willing to fund others choices for more when I have seen people and life at both ends. It can be done. The ones I feel bad for are those with health problems and struggling seniors.

Lyn your job is you are a business owner and own 1/44,500ths of the company.... now one of the divisions contract is up and find it "an insult" that in struggling times...... they are being asked to pay more for their benefits

tom-
You are correct!!
But, I may have a larger say if you go based on those paying real estate taxes. Or, if you determine my % based on the voters, throw those under voting age out of that population number.

They have no postings for vacancies - the teachers are in the classrooms starting rumors with the kids telling them that the district is hiring criminals, pedifiles and rapists because no one is qualified or background checked. Shame on those teachers for using the kids as pawns. Since many, many teachers have already cleared out their classrooms, I imagine this "secret vote" on March 3 is only for show and that the decision has already been made. The Strongsville Teachers Union is on their own here - the State Union will honor their picket line but will not support them in their fight - what does that tell you?

The posting would be on the company website that will hire the scabs. This is Huffmaster per the news articles. The posting is there: BA and a teaching license is required; the pay is less than the starting rate for a new teacher in Strongsville (I think I saw 170.00 a day) and they do require background checks. ODE and the state legislature changed the law on background checks for educators in 2008 - so the article that is going around from 2006 is really irrelevant. The law is pretty particular about who you put in a classroom with students. If teachers are spreading rumors about the replacements then that is really irresponsible of them.

Thanks, Elsie - I'll check it out.
I had spoken with someone in another school system who is a sub teacher - and he said they only need a bachelor degree and the pay was good for a temp job. He is retired and has lots to offer the students, despite the teachers opinion of them.

I gave more of the info from Huffmaster further down the page, if interested.

Rich, no one wants to give up what they have. Unfortunately reality is change happens to us all. Auto workers and steel workers had it really good for a while too; the economy changed and they had to refigure their contracts significantly. Today Cleveland's mill is the most cost effective world wide (see articles on Mittal Steel). And they took pay cuts, benefits cuts and a loss of a significant part of the workforce. It hurts at first but eventually we adapt to a new system that is more effective. The schools will survive too they just need to accept that change is necessary; they haven't gotten there yet and really really unfortunately it may take a strike to do that. There have been plenty of teacher strikes over the years nationwide - I know of no study or person (students) who's life was negatively effected by a strike in terms of their overall life success. The board needs to listen to their financial support (tax payers) and do the right thing - stand their ground. This needs to change. It has nothing to do with respect - society does respect teachers and individuals and professionals - they just are not more important that everything else.

Actually health care professionals should be next. This costs too much too. The main reason we are having so much trouble in this society is the cost of heath care and its uncontrolled increases. Basically people are being bankruptec by health care costs and then cannot pay taxes to support other society needs.

good one!

we should make tee shirts out of this, and send our children to school in them

Strong Res-
I like that too!
Remember Nancy Reagan's egg campaign?( I wonder if the kids today know who she is)
"THIS IS YOUR BRAIN ON DRUGS"

We could put the picture on the front of the t-shirt and a slogan on the back, something like:
"THIS IS YOU CHILD ON THE TEACHERS' LEFTOVERS"

if you do ...do not be surprised if your child comes home with a note saying they are now failing Art

I forgot about that!
The teachers are holding them hostage as well.

I certainly value what our educators do and DO NOT in any way discount what they do each day. As a community there is a cost for strong schools to be in place. Should it come at a premium ? I do not think so ...nor do I think it (ie benefits and pension ) should be "waaaaaaaaay" out of line with the rest of us that are out there making contribution in other ways and working hard. It would be a first step to get these to near market to double the insurance contributions and cut the pension constributions in half.I would think that would be a huge step in balancing the books.

Tad...that is an excellent point. I want to puke every time I hear the lame argument that "you can't base our performance off of test scores...it's not fair! There are so many other factors...blah blah blah" Ok...then what the hell do we judge your performance on? How you dress? How white your teeth are? There are so many jobs in the private sector where performance and quotas are demanded or you are let go. I think that's called "pressure to deliver" and requires you to sometimes put it into an extra gear that you didn't know you even had. I also think that's why when everyone thinks they can do "sales," most realize they are not cut out for it bc it's too demanding. You don't think there are a multitude of factors that go into if you close a deal on an account, etc....such as the state of the economy, whether you can connect to the person you are doing business with, their personal situations that may play into them buying or passing? Do you think any corporation CARES that you didn't do your job because you tried really hard but the customer just didn't listen to you or that it's just a bad economy? HELL NO. They let you go and get someone in that can do the job better. Simply said...in the real world...YOUR WORTH IS BASED ON YOUR RESULTS...NOT YOUR INTENTIONS.

Thank you Tad. I work out a lot. Don't get me wrong, I'm no David Chokachee, but I stay in shape. You sound like you can hold your own as well.

My presence here is to let teachers unions know that the jig is up. It's also to let teachers know that they need to start having the courage to stand up for themselves within the union. Almost everyone on here claiming to be a teacher has said that they hope their union shows what their proposed demands are. If that is true, and the union decides not to...then I expect to see a rise in the ranks of the union members...demanding their will be done by the leadership that they PAY. I'm sure it won't happen bc of fear, intimidation, etc, but you will be a hypocrite if it doesn't.

Also...the board needs to be audited as well. We should be able to take a look at every single subject, program and textbook that they are bringing into our schools and make sure they are consistent on what we want our kids learning. I consider it a waste of our tax dollars as well when they are spent funding ill-advised programs or courses of study that teach our kids things that will do nothing for them in real life.

Myron words his reply's well

Thank you James. I think like you and others, I am so tired of both unions and the entitlement mindset. I would love to see all taxes, rather than be auto-deducted, have to be sent in as a check to pay back to govt. or better yet, you have to pay them in person, in cash. The entire tax paying country would be up in arms...bc most people don't even know how much money is being removed from their check every month and what it's going towards. Why do you think casinos use chips? It's a hell of a lot easier to forget how much money your are talking about when the cash isn't in front of your face. Govt. preys on you to get complacent and get used to your money just not being there. It absolutely amazes me how many people don't care what comes of their tax dollars and have this mindset that govt. knows best.

teachers actually have no vacation days they do get sick days bereavement and maternity leave which is probably all they get

Just how many paid personal and sick days do they get each year? And how much can be carried over?
As I understand some other schools policies, if you don't use sick time, it gets carried over year to year, and if its 15 days per year, that's quite a bit to accumulate. Is that number anywhere near accurate? How about, any paid personal or other days besides the snow days?
Is there a teacher willing to answer that? No one has yet answered those questions, but plenty come on here to spread rumors. May we have some facts?

Not a fan-
Did you know that the teachers broke out in laughter at the meeting when the Board was speaking about substitutes replacing striking teachers?
I guess that is their collective opinion of those people that they count on to cover their classes when they are sick or not at work for whatever reason. It must be a real eye opener for their current subs to know how little these teachers think of them.
But yet, they probably want these subs to support their current position.
Again a bit hypocritical when they say one of their demands is respect when they show so little themselves for the Board, community, subs and the kids (shown by the teachers willingness to abandon them).

Lyn, like I said, I am not sure if this is the way it is in Strongsville, but I get 15 sick days per year. There are restrictions on using them of course and the reason for their use must be documented. You can carry them over year to year but the same restrictions apply - I believe there is a cap on them, but I am not sure what it is. These sick days that are saved up are what you can use for things like maternity leave or if you have major surgery or something. If you do not have the sick days to use, you don't get paid.

We get 2 personal days a year which must be scheduled at least 2 weeks in advance and also have limitations as to what they can be used for (you can not use them for vacation or attached to a holiday).

Holly I wish you were a teacher here

Thank you Strongsville Resident, I take that as a huge compliment. I am sure there are other teachers like me teaching in Strongsville too. I am very happy teaching in Berea. I taught in Strongsville my first year out of college and it just wasn't the right fit for me. I am fortunate to be in a school district where I am trusted, valued, and appreciated. It makes me feel good anytime a parent or community member like yourself expresses that they would want me to teach their children.

It is actually Ohio Revised Code that allows all public employees 15 days sick leave. SB5 sought to change that not sure if any of it went through on other legislation. Teachers do not get vacation nor paid holidays. They only have paid days which is student days and paid professional development days and conference days with parents.

Strongsville's contract allows for carry over of days. This is also ORC - the code is limited to 120 days accumulation but I believe Strongsville has more allowed by contract. Severance pay for public employees is based on 30% of the accumulation. If Strongsville has higher limited then it will be noted in their contract. You can see their contract at SERB as well as any other public employer union contract in Ohio. Last time I looked the site was not updated but there should be something there for Strongsville from the last few years. In the contract I saw their limit was above 120 days accumulation.

They also got a payment for not using their sick time that was higher than other local districts.

The sick time isn't so far off from business that credit employees with time worked toward sick leave days.

Unfortunately, in a business, sick days do not carry over and you don't get paid for unused sick days. You only use those days when you are actually sick - its not like people think "use it or lose it", they are more professional and take only if needed. Otherwise, you would not last long at your job - you would be terminated for this abuse.

And, lots of hourly workers do not get sick days.

Don't teachers get a couple of personal paid days as well?

Here's the link to the last contract that expired in 2012:

http://www.serb.state.oh.us/sections/research/WEB_CONTRACTS/WebContracts.htm

LOL really wow nice try very childish trick

Worried for you
8:15 pm on Thursday, February 21, 2013
this is my very first post on the patch, and I just finished my first novel, "green eggs and ham" By Suess

Thing One
9:16 pm on Thursday, February 21, 2013
I read it also, My 11th grade teacher taught me how to do that reading thing

What is wrong (worried for you) did my post the other day bother you that much

ATTENTION TAXPAYERS

this was posted earlier
A strongsville teacher who admitted being at school during their "sceduled planning time"
managed to find the time to post 14 different comments during the next 1 1/2 hours
when confronted about it this teacher replied
"the little extra time I find to do as I please is my right to do so"
so this teacher think 1 1/2 hours is just a little free time
which if I am not mistaken they are asking for "MORE PLANNING TIME DURING THE DAY"

this was the first and last post times with 12 post in between all being paid for by us

SVille Teacher
12:12 pm on Friday, February 22, 2013
Hi Jean:

SVille Teacher
1:27 pm on Friday, February 22, 2013
Hi Steve,

Hey worried this might answer you fascination with the $15,000 number

Lyn (made the point)
As I mentioned in another post, maybe that $15,000 isn't so far off. So, maybe that is why the teachers are not showing their proposal, because it sounds so outrageous to those of us reading it.

If you use Tracy's income as an example,
if they convert 10.2% (pension pickup) to salary - that's $8249 more
if they want a 8.4% (3.5% + 2.5% +2.5%) raise - that's $6793 more

Therefore, her salary goes up $15,042 - from $80,869 to $95,911.

Her last increase was 8.8%, so its not that unrealistic to think that this is what they are seeking.

Someone pointed out that converting that 10.2% isn't a raise. But, that and the 8.4% would be the difference in the old salary to the new salary IF this were to happen. And, this would now be her actual salary - compare THAT to other districts.

Tom I think Lyn's comment is a "what if" situation. I see nothing posted that would suggest an 18% raise is actually being considered. (combination of the two over time). The pedro34 posting (could be fake) stated the 9.3% and a life time freeze. Which really means they probably want to institute merit increases instead of steps. Which makes sense. This would also suggest the board is not open to any percentage increases to the base salary. This $15,000 figure is out there and being misrepresented. I don't think it actually exists in either proposal.

The treasurer stated they will be out of money in the next few years if the cost are not contained or an operating levy passes. No way this will happen anytime soon especially if tax payers are still paying for the pick up in any way. I just can't support that and I am a supporter of teachers and the schools. So I don't believe the board would ever entertain any increase to the overall budget - they can't.

The teachers do a great job overall (yes I admit there are a few bad apples but every profession has them) - this is my experience in three generations of Strongsville graduates - it is a great school system lets not destroy it. I hope the teachers understand, or at least come to some understanding that their salary structure has to change - and it won't be in the form of any increase. The money is not there.

Yes-
"what if" to possibly explain that $15,000 figure floating out there.
I would think they would use percentages in the contract, but applying those % gives you a better feel for what one might be earning.
I was working backwards, mathematically, to arrive at that $15,000 amount and %.

hey worried .....I went back and looked and I thought we were talking about Elvis being alive not to mention the "the school board wants a lifetime pay freeze" rumor

After your original comment, sorry?

If you haven't figured it out, I have much more integrity in my written word than the teachers on here, and that is the main reason I am so disgusted by their attitude and actions and expectations. I have presented LOADS of facts and figures and all the teachers do is whine.

A person's actions and words give you a good indication of their character, and a person's character carries over to their work ethic. So, why should I want to see the teachers rewarded that are presently working here? I miss the days when teachers really cared about their students and put them first over their greed. Those are good teachers - those are the kind I had - and those still do exist - maybe a few here, but not many.

I just looked worried for you I do not see any comment or any "INSERT JAMES' COMMENT HERE:)" in the thread

And, what is your problem? Can't comprehend what you copied and pasted?
It was getting ridiculous that teachers were spreading rumors as fact.
And, you have a problem when we have HEARD something, that we finally decide to share and we don't claim its true, because WE haven't seen the proposals, so we are telling you that we HEARD it? We are qualifying our statement and rather than stating them as fact.
Would you prefer we make something up by taking a lesson from the teachers by stating as fact and make things up?

Have any teachers come on here to dispute this info? Plenty come on to bad mouth posters who don't want to keep overpaying them through their pay and benefits combined.
If what someone heard, wherever they heard it, or overheard it, guess what - it might just be true! You would think teachers would dispute this otherwise. Where did they get this info from on the radio if it was being discussed there?

Get your facts straight -I did not first post that info that teachers don't seem to want to dispute. And, I can't blame the person who did, because he/she informed the rest of us what they heard. It is a large amount, and nobody wants to see that average salary go up $15,000. Even teachers from other districts think that is too high.

Gee, I see you discovered your own mistake while we were having breakfast in the middle of my reply.
Stupid discovered his own stupidity.

Gee Lyn, so defensive. And calling me stupid, that really is not nice! :(

I have a few points to make and then I will be out of your hair. Hopefully, it will fit in one comment box, but if not, please hold your insults and mockery until the end. Thanks!

If you notice my post was very cut and dry. I did not say anything in support of or condoning the teachers or the union. Therefore, I have not interest in arguing with you on those topics, but thanks for all of the information. I do not know or pretend to know enough about contracts, unions, the board of education, negotiations, proposals, contracts, etc to even discuss these issues. You, after all, are the one with all of the facts and figures not me. So while, I enjoyed your lecture, I have nothing to say on those topics. I am not presenting myself as pro teacher or anti-teacher, I am just anti-lunacy, which is what this has become!

The point of my post was merely to expose the double standard that you and your "friends" have created on this forum. If someone comes on this site to state something he/she has "heard" or to express a view opposing your own, you (not just Lyn, but the "others" as well) dismiss that person, demean and even mock him/her. You (again, not just lyn) demand to know where they get their information
and if he/she does not provide it to your satisfaction, he/she must be a teacher or a union thug! To be continued...

While you set the standard for others, your crew has failed to live up to it.

Although James has since deleted his post, he did claim in the aforementioned conversation that he "heard" the teachers were asking for a 15,000 raise (and a 3 month paid summer holiday). There was no mention of this mysterious money until James decided to divulge that information for everyone. Afterwards, several of you continued to insert this information, that you "heard" in various posts until it caught like wildfire. Well done! I'm sure people can look and see them-unless they have since been deleted. Not one person has let us in on the secret of where this figure came from. James must not be too confident in his information or he wouldn't have deleted it. (Oh, and by the Tom, that fact that you are making it look like the conversation was about Elvis is hilarious. Thanks for making me chuckle today:) Furthermore, when people asked where this information came from, James did not speak up and take credit. If you "heard" it and you think it is a valid point, stand by it and don't delete it! If you have facts and figures to support this, even better!

I am not sure how this click (lyn, james murphy, tom m., and kim l.) became the leaders/rulers of this forum (perhaps I missed an election somewhere), but I think it would be best if you, as the leaders/rulers, practiced what you preached.

To be continued...

Worried-
I guess you are done - 15 minutes and no more from you.

So, its OK that the teachers come on here and state rumors as fact, but when others state things and qualify those statements as something they heard, which means they don't know if it is true or not, then that is not OK. HUH???
Is that the double standard you mean???

BTW, you had said-
" ... try to make me look stupid all you like"
Since you said this, I figured if the shoe fits....

Readers can choose to believe or not believe me, as they can't see James' post for themselves (since he DELETED it). Or maybe they don't care and that's fine too. It makes me feel better that I have at least put it out there. Let common sense take over.

And now that I have spoke my piece, it's time to say goodbye to my friends and return to Kansas. I'll miss you Lyn! I'll miss you Tom! I'll miss you Kim! And James, I'll miss you most of all!!! Goodbye everyone, goodbye!

There's no place like home, there's no place like home, there's no place like home...

(Let the tirades begin:)

Worried-

So, when I was in the Macy's fitting room on Friday and heard some kids talking with their mom ("mom" was there with at least one who was her daughter and the daughters friends), and I overheard them saying they were afraid to express their opinion because of possible backlash (my word), that is not appropriate to say I HEARD this? And, one of the girls got upset when the mom said she was going to talk to some teacher and the administration because the kids fear retaliation and that it might effect their grades, if they in any way go against the teachers. So, I shouldn't say I HEARD this either?

I can't wait to HEAR some juicy news at my hair appointment this week, and I'll surely hear lots - its a 2 1/5 hour appt. I'll report back after.

Don't you hear people talking at the grocery store?

With all your lecturing, its no surprise that someone might delete a comment that might have been the source of this $15,000 raise that someone heard they want.
You seem very concerned about trying to squash this "rumor", yet why not put that effort towards getting the union to agree to release the proposals? Then we can all see just what rumors are true, in full context.
It WOULD be legal if both parties to the negotiation process were to agree to it! Since the BOE has agreed, its the union who seems to be against letting the public know what's in their proposal - they must realize they are asking for too much. Yet they say they are proud of their's.

Did you catch their statement, I assume its Tracy making this statement:

" I will be proud to hold my head high as to what the SEA proposed for negotiations, but I'm not sure the Board Negotiations Team will be able to do the same. "

Well, be proud and show the contracts. Go ahead and call the Board's bluff as you think it is.

And that other comment -
"DO THE RIGHT THING!"

How about listening to your own words

And, in Brecksville, they released only the initial proposals before negotiations began. And, just because the union filed suit for doing this, does not mean they would have won - the union dropped their claim.

It appears our union does not want the public to know what they are asking for. Once we do "know all", it will be too late - they will have their contract and all outcry and comments will disappear, and life will go back to normal. At least that is what they are hoping for.

And, will we "know all"? Or just what the final contract is. I want to know what the teachers initially are demanding - not what they cry about having to settle for.

Very good point Steve. Like I was saying before...we have a lot of union members that check in here (or at least claim to be). I want to know why they are not pressing their union leaders to release their demands if they think what they want is so "fair." Are they too cowardly to confront the people that they hand over dues to each month? My guess is a resounding YES.

Btw Steve, I was curious on what kind of agent you are?

As I mentioned in another post, maybe that $15,000 isn't so far off. So, maybe that is why the teachers are not showing their proposal, because it sounds so outrageous to those of us reading it.

If you use Tracy's income as an example,
if they convert 10.2% to salary - that's $8249 more
if they want a 8.4% raise - that's $6793 more

Therefore, her salary goes up $15,042 - from $80,869 to $95,911.

Her last increase was 8.8%, so its not that unrealistic to think that this is what they are seeking.

Someone pointed out that converting that 10.2% isn't a raise. But, that and the 8.4% would be the difference in the old salary to the new salary IF this were to happen. And, this would now be her actual salary - compare THAT to other districts.

Elsie-
I think you were commenting on my post here (?), that I tried to delete immediately because I must have somehow submitted it before I was done. Above is the completed comment.
Something whacky is going on with these posts - some come through and others don't.

Lyn before I started reading about the teachers I had no idea that there was that hidden $8249.00 pension payment not included in their listed salaries, so $80,000.00 is actually $88,000.00

YEP!
Compare that to other districts in the county and state, and see how poorly bad they are.

I do like how you summarize my lengthy comments.

Strongsville Resident-

You remind me of an old friend, "Alan".

Yes, Lyn, the posting system is a bid off - maybe due to the volumn. I still don't see how to post to a reply only how to reply to the parent post. Sorry if my posts are out of place.

What I was trying to say is the percentages are off. STRS employee part is 10% not 10.2 and the pick up on the pick up is 1% of the 10% not on the total salary. Sorry the math person in we wants to be accurate. I see nothing on teachers asking for a percentage increase in addition. My only point is at 9.3% to just wash the pick up will create an increase cost to the board and tax payers as well as a cost in net pay to the teachers due to any increase to the base increasing the 14% the board must pay. No way the board should entertain this - if the treasurer is correct they can't afford any increase to the current base. They need to find ways to decrease salary costs.

The salary quoted I did look up on the State Transparency Project (I don't like Buckeye it tends to have inaccurate information on pensions). She did get an bump up but I don't think Strongsville has negotiated any % increase on their scale since 08 or 09. This has to be a step increase and maybe a column bump up for coursework. Maybe the two together. If SERB would put Strongsville's contract back up we could then check this.

That raise I was speaking of was for 2008-09.
I really don't care about the crying over SOME not getting any increases since then. She did a very good one.
And, we all know what the private sector has faced since 2008. But yet the teachers think they should not be effected by the same economic problems (national, state, and local) everyone else has been?

Yeah! I think all 3 of your posts are here - but we all got them several times.

Tina-
I'd also finish your comment of
" If it's truly about the working conditions"
Then, why were the teachers holding signs that said
"WE"RE WORTH IT"
Isn't that about money????

Tina, your child must have gone to Allen when it was open - I agree they were a wonderful staff. I have family that went to that school and I recognize some of these names, those teachers were well thought of as caring professionals. On line they do have the enrollment for each grade in each building on strongnet.org. I don't think class size is an issue in most cases. I think the teacher's union believes that it will become an issue in the future.

I think they are afraid that with some of the new laws that let students get credit for outside activites in pe or art or music as credit will reduce the number of teachers needed. If you think of the kids who take private lessons or are on private teams why do they need to take more pe or music at school? The parent is already taking care of this and providing their child with a "rounded" life experience. Yes, those that don't have their kids in sports or music or art classes need pubic education to help society produce 'well rounded' citizens" prepared for college. But if the parents are already providing this why not reduce the number of teachers - I don't mean to fire the ones we have, just don't replace them in the future - saves everybody money without hurting anyone.

I agree it is probably about the money - it usually is and rightly so. We all get used to what we live on - it is hard to change. They need to realize that a lot of professions have had to change due to the economy.

It says:

"Valid Ohio Certification/Licensure or eligibility required."
I wonder what "Valid ... or eligibility required" means. Does that mean a bachelor degree WOULD BE sufficient as I was told by another working as a sub in a different district?

Do all the following require a teaching license? Those teaching:
- college courses?
- night classes?
- at Polaris or other type schools?
Asking, I don't know.

There are plenty of stay at home moms, retirees and unemployed professionals who might be interested, if they know if they qualify. Think of all that knowledge these people have to share!!!

A man of many talents. Do you happen to represent those two local lounge singers Russ and Dom?

I like your thought process Tina, but it will fall on deaf ears...that is...unless there is money attached to the request. Union leaders don't listen to anyone who doesn't pay them dues.

I'm gonna call BS on you having a private jet from booking the best lounge acts in strongsville. You probably would have to take out 3 addt'l mortgages to just fill up the tank. And if you were that good...why the hell are you booking acts at the red onion? For years, my band and I have been playing hot spots like the Buzzards Roost and Adult Day Care and I've never heard of no "Steve the Agent" before.

I agree I do not see what this has to do with the teachers going on strike

Al & Steve, let me recommend an online dating site...www.sugardaddy.com. Perhaps you two can continue to get acquainted over there and leave this board to more appropriate discussion.

I heard they are asking for a never expiring contract...does anyone know if that is true or not? I also heard that any work the kids do in school while the strike is going on will not count (I think that was told by a student). Does anyone know the specifics of any of this stuff? I sent an email to the Superintendant but who knows if he will respond.

Teachers are frightening the kids way too much. Where is their concern for them??
Even bringing up a 7 year old article about a problem with the strike security firm that has since been resolved long ago, frightening parents and kids - that's despicable.

HUH? How many???
Really??

If so, that is low. Totally unacceptable. My opinion of them just got worse.

I hope there was news coverage of this bad behavior so everyone can see there is nothing this group won't do.

How would the teachers like it if the taxpayers went to the teachers homes and did the same? What if board members did this?
Would it be acceptable to call a teachers home?
Total lowlifes doing this. But, now they have set the bar. I guess to bring this to ones home is acceptable to them.