$64k a year for a PART TIME JOB?!
Go ahead and strike.
Your brain washed union auto worker brothers & sisters at GM/Ford/Fiat-Chrysler will support you, even though you drive Toyota,Honda,Nissan, and VW.
Most union DRONES think alike.

Winston I am a Ford worker and most private unions (which is what WE are) cannot stand the socialist teachers union

Teachers deserve to be paid well, the only thing that they and most others do not know how to take into acccount is the value of short & primarily LONG-TERM benefits. In particular is the tremendous value of a PEN$ION that most can only dream of. If a Teacher retires on $50,000.00/year, that would equate to a $1,000,000.00 in Assets, aka Working Capital, earning a 5% Interest or Dividend. If Teachers want more NOW in the SHORT-TERM, such as salary, then they should give up their VERY valuable LONG-TERM Pension and it should be replaced with what the VAST majority of Workers are offered in the form of a matching 401-K. Something to think about, total pay on a collective basis?
p.s. This should apply to the vast majority of Civil Service (ha), Government jobs!!!

they had better get used to standing outside holding signs (at least the grammar was correct)

My daughter was offered a teaching position at the Strongsville High School beginning the fall of 2012 for $37K. I'm not sure were you're getting your facts from (starting salary of $53,027)?

Agreed Jan, that $53,000 starting salary is really inflated. They are probably quoting that salary as if it were a year round position. The website that they keep referring to that publicizes teachers salary figures it that way and that is probably where they are getting it from. I have been teaching for 12 years and also have a Masters Degree and make around that.

Jan and Holly the number quoted by Rex the first time poster, do not reflect the opinions of the residents of strongsville and nobody knows where that number even came from

The starting school teacher salary came from this website: http://primaryschoolteachersalary.com/OH/Strongsville/salary/Public-School-Teacher-Salary

The teacher salary figures came from this website: http://primaryschoolteachersalary.com/OH/Strongsville/salary/Public-School-Teacher-Salary

For accurate figures of what any given teacher or admin. makes, EXCLUDING the value of their benefits package-which is quite sizeable in itself, please go to www.buckeyeinstitute.org. You can put in a teacher/admin. name & find out their salary,but not value of benefits. It's a real eye opener & maybe you will understand why our school system is so consistently strained for money & coming after the taxpayers. You can thank Jim Gray for creating part of this monster w/agreeing to automatic pay raises regardless of performance. John Krupinski is simply trying to get it back under control. Truth is our state has been "illegally" funding schools for years,but one has the kahunas to go up against the state & so this huge mess continues year after year.

buckeyeinstitute.org shows their salaries - however, I do notice that they have removed salaries for 2012.

Excellent point!

That's a bold faced lie. Check salaries for Olmsted Falls, Brecksville, and Royalton. Strongsville actually has ONE OF THE LOWEST salaries in the area.

joesheepdows you are an idiot. Strongsville has the highest BENEFITS in the state and is 17th highest average salary out of 614 school districts in the state. get your facts straight. The School employees have a Cadillac pension plan. Please strike so I can drive by and laugh at you part time prema donnas. The teachers have been crying poor mouth for years but never tell you about step increases, (raises just for coming back to teach next year), free pension (yes they do not contribute a dime to their pension, the taxpayers do) nor up until 3yrs ago had full health benefits paid for them. Please leave and see if you have these type of benefits elsewhere.

mark pretty good is not even close to their pay
http://www.buckeyeinstitute.org/teacher-salary
Strongsville has over 150 "teachers with seniority" all making $79,0000 + a year (not including their benefit packages)
what I do find funny is anytime teachers salaries are brought up, somebody always seems to post about a "friend" they know who only makes 1/2 that amount
yes some of the newer low seniority teachers ARE paid less but that pay scale rises to the top tier quickly, and this is for 9 months work or look at it this way 184 workdays $435 a day is what most of the " teachers of seniority" earn

I noticed that buckeyeinstitute.org removed the 2012 salaries ... and some of them were ridiculously high!

we have supported the teachers for years. it is their turn to give back to the students. If they paid their own pensions it would give the district over $8million per year to spend on text books, technology, building repairs/upgrades. Pay to play could be eliminated. When is it time to put the students first. By the way I have been bored and more school board meetings. I am a concerned parent of 4 whose kids are in private school because of these insane demands by the teachers.

I'm still trying to figure out what they want now! These people are never happy!

I've was in the IAM for many years. Unions once had a noble cause. Now they protect the lazy and the greedy. The guy that is just trying to put in a good days work watched as their dues are utilized to defend union "brothers" that least deserved to be "protected" as the laziest seemed to be the ones that they supported most under the guise of "defending" their rights per the contract.

I recall the union steward stopping by to tell me to slow down because I was "killing the job". I don't recall any of them stopping by to thank me for doing a good days work and keeping the company strong so that they could continue to be employed at a good wage and grow the union by having more members and better representation for the right things.

Entitlement breeds contempt.

Ken-
But, this does not seem to be a case of "unfair labor practice".
If the teachers can protest because they are unhappy with the contract negotiations because they feel they are not being treated fairly, that would indicate that they know what is being discussed in the negotiations. So, since one party to the contract, the teachers, who get their salary and benefits paid by the taxpayers, the other party to the contract,
then it seems to follow that the taxpayers, the other party to the contract,
has every right to know the details of the negotiations as well - including what the points the teachers are in agreement with and what they are unhappy with.

Lyn , WoW that is a great point

Kim-
I wish SOMEONE on the Board would take this stand.
It is only right.
The union represents the teachers, the employees, and keeps them informed.
Why isn't this same information being passed on to the taxpayers - the ultimate employers of these people?

...

Tells you something doesn't it?

what little respect I had for the teachers is now gone, and has been replaced by disgust :(

And, lets not forget that this above comparison doesn't even consider that the teachers pay is for only 9 months of work and better paid benefits than the private sector receives, or will receive at retirement - since teachers can retire so much sooner, MANY years sooner, than the private sector, with full benefits and much higher benefits than anyone collecting social security could possibly receive

Ben:

I estimate current annual "pension pick up" figure at $3 million for current fiscal ending 6/30/13.

It was over $4+ million a couple of years back-- before the staff cuts and early retirements. Actual % currently paid by Strongsville is 10.2% vs 11% total due from employee.(per Parkinson-former treasurer ).

In case you or others are interested........

FYI...1994 through 2012--Strongsville paid $60+ million in pension pick ups, p/r taxes associated with pension pick ups-plus a 3rd layer of pick up which employee receives during his/her retirement years.

The 3rd level of pick up is like a "hidden raise" and results from "grossing up of pay" via pension pick ups when calcuating employees' pension for highest 5 yrs of pay. All paid by taxpayers.

Pension fund insolvency forcing teachers statewide to gradually increase their contribution to 13%--by 2014. Other changes have also been implemented to help ensure 30 yr pension solvency.

TSW

...and that 10% was JUST added to their share in the last negotiations - so that has only been in effect for 2 years.

Fedup, unless it was removed and then added again, that 10% has been in their contract for a long time. I taught in Strongsville in 2000 and it was there then I know. I doubt it was dropped in the last 10 years or so and then added in the last negotiation since that contract actually instituted a pay freeze and eliminated step increases (per a former article in the Patch).

You would be surprised by how many of them don't teach - a teacher my daugher had 2 years ago had 65 parent complaints - guess what the principal/district did about it? NOTHING! They said their hands were tied and that they couldn't force teachers to teach. Really? I would love to read one of their contracts to see what is in it.

Fedup, if the principal failed to do anything about a poor or ineffective teacher because they say their hands are tied, they are not being truthful. Teachers can be fired but must be given due process. Usually contracts will stipulate that they be put on one year of intervention where they are closely observed and monitored before they can be dismissed. It is not impossible to get rid of teachers, but the principals do have to follow the steps outlined in the process to do so. If they don't want to bother, that is on them, not the teachers union.

Lyn actually thanks to Michael Scott statements of "ridiculous proposals" at the bargaining table and shown "appalling levels of disrespect" to the teachers.................... I now think the can of worms to have been now opened..........and the school board has an obligation to the citizens of strongsville to show what "ridiculous proposals" have already been offered so we can see what "appalling levels of disrespect" have been shown ......AS CLAIMED by Michael Scott a 70K strongsville teacher

EXACTLY!

Now hopefully SOMEONE on the Board will report to the teachers' employers, US, just as the union has been reporting to the teachers.

I would think that they would welcome the community's support! It would be more than overwhelmingly in their favor, assuming they truly are representing the taxpayer and students interests.

The Board has no position...and no back bone!

looks around ........... who is Abe ?????????/

Abe I have no problem with the teachers salaries staying where they are now I also have no problem with the newer teachers being brought up to scale
its the pension pickups and the amount they contribute to their healthcare which is way out of touch with the average that the citizens (taxpayers ) are paying

Abe-
Hmmm... Strange, I don't think anyone has asked me that, maybe I'm just not remembering. They usually are more concerned with childish irrelevant comebacks like "how much do you make" or "why don't you do it if you are so jealous". I'll try to answer, but my answer might change tomorrow if given additional thought or others have valid points to be considered. And, like you, I don't have exact amounts in mind. But, I do know what I consider to be fair or excessive. Also, to be fair, I have not analyzed what the "going rate" is for different types of salaried positions.
Regarding secretary pay of $35,000. I would not have a problem with that. So many other variables to be considered as well if comparing to teachers - such as teachers only work 9 months and I assume they receive MUCH better benefits (days off, sick time, healthcare, retirement/pension,...) than the secretary does. I have a problem with people looking down on others jobs or professions as being less demanding or stressful or worthy than others. As many will say, you never know what anothers job is like until you actually do it - and, yes, that includes teaching as well as that bank teller, sales clerk secretary or boss. You also didn't specify the number of years one would be working to earn $35,000 - as entry level or at 5 years? At downtown location in a large legal firm? So many variables to be considered.
Now teachers....finally....

I do not think they should make more than police or fire.
As you said, I do not think they should make over $100,000. But, I would also consider that their pay is for only 9 months - so, I would use that $100,000 as though it were a 12 month work year. Therefore, I would cap them at $75,000. NO increases - whatever those step increase are, or any other . I would require them to pay their OWN retirement contributions so the taxpayer only has to pay the districts 14% per employee. I would not pay any teacher for any additional education or degrees. That is on them - if they want to better themselves, so be it. They already have the job, so what do I care if they take another class? If they weren't qualified to be hired with the credentials they had then, then they should not have been hired. And, yes, there are people in the private sector who do pay for their own further education - for every one somebody says differently, there is a person to prove the opposite, so stop that stupid argument. People in so many salaried AND hourly jobs are required to get continuing education.

The beginning salary should maybe be around $27,000 to $30,000- it is, again for 9 months work, which converts to $36,000 to $40,000. Don't really know - haven't looked at what new hires at jobs are paid to compare. BUT, the big problem is how quickly the teachers seem to advance to the upper end of the payscale and that needs to stop. The upper level should be limited to the most senior teachers.
And, I would have the teachers in a healthcare program similar to what the average person has - and they should be contributing to same just as one does in the private sector - not just a nominal amount. It is unjust, greedy and selfish to expect taxpayers to pay for teachers to have a better program and cover a large part of the teachers premium while the taxpayer has a worse program and is paying a huge chunk of their own premium.
The schools were never meant to exist just so that teachers could have a cushy standard of living.

I had this big long response but it got deleted.....ugh. I never meant to demean another profession I was just trying to point out their education level, responsibility level, compared to other jobs. I think it's bananas to expect a teacher to spend 4 years in college, rack up $100k in debt to make $27k a year and not be able to quickly escalate. Would you expect a city accountant engineer or accountant to make $27k a year, so why expect a teacher? Lyn, in response to your response about schools not being in existence to support cushy salaries for teaches, I agree! Is a starting salary of $33k really cushy? I just checked salary.com and the national median salary for a kindergarten teacher is $52k and $34k is the 10th percentile. So Strongsville starts teachers salaries in the 10th percentile of their profession and thats cushy?

Abe-
I know, yesterday I typed out a comment and hit submit and got some screwy message immediately about it not being posted - nobody could have even read it for content to deny it, it was as quick as I had hit submit!
Anyway, my problem is not so much with the bottom end of the payscale - sorry if I left you with that impression in my ramblings.
The websites you are using are kinda goofy - the numbers are way, way off.
Go to the Ohio Department of Education for true numbers, not even the teachers would dispute that site:
http://ilrc.ode.state.oh.us/PublicDW/asp/Main.aspx?server=mstris2&project=ILRC&evt=3002&uid=guest&pwd=&persist-mode=%228%22

Holly-
Nicely said.

so ok master than what do you think is fair from this point
the senior teachers salary of 150 of strongsville teachers is $80,869.00 with 33,000.00 three year employee salary match pension contribution on a 184 day work year not to mention pension pickups and what is it 75$ hospitalization

so you have the floor what is the offer that caused the teachers to act like little kids since strongsvilles teachers are already the area benchmark salary point

but please before you answer I am not talking the salary of the new teachers (who have to work up to top tier with increases every year )
I am talking the salary of the 150 teachers already making 80,000.00+ per year

"Decent" raises? That's laughable! Other workers do not get to make a significant amount of money AND get months and months of time off. Also, teachers DO NOT have to buy their own supplies. They can write grants to (a) PTAl; and (b) the federal government for money to supply their classrooms...and if they choose not to - it is a tax deduction.

Fedup, grants are usually outlined by the PTA for specific purposes. They are usually not approved for general classroom supplies, but rather for special projects that you might want to do with your class. The everyday stuff, or things you want to do but don't fall into the requirements set up by the grant are your responsibility. I have written many grants, some have been approved, some not, but I still spend a lot of money on my classroom and students each year to improve their experience. Everything from tissues, hand sanitizer, extra folders, notebooks, and notebook paper (for kids that don't have it), supplies for a craft project, etc. You also spend a lot of money supporting the kids in their other endeavors; buying cookies, coupon books, swim team flip flops, etc to support their clubs and sports. None of this is mandatory, but it is something that unspoken code says that good teachers are expected to do. You also do a lot of volunteering of your time chaperoning dances and other after school activities, doing independent studies with kids that can't fit your class in their schedule, helping kids after school, going to different fundraising events (car washes, mattress sales, hoagie drives, etc). It is not a matter of being too lazy to write a grant, teachers just come to accept that they are going to spend some money.

t jefferson the patch website is just buggy sometimes (flash/java-script issues)it does crash and freeze from time to time .............Debbie Palmer actually gives the posters a lot of latitude (you would be surprised some of the heated debates she let continue ............the problem is when you respond to someones clueless post and answer it proving that they are in fact clueless ..........then 4-5 more people post after you................. until the original poster goes and deletes their comment everyone else s comments in the thread vanish also

Tom M, you're right, and thanks for explaining why comments sometimes disappear. If the original poster deletes his or her comment, all the replies are deleted too. I haven't deleted any comments from this story.

CPA?
Not working long hours and not having to pay for expensive continuing education classes every year to maintain your license for your license renewal every 3 years? No stress involved with deadlines in dealing with the IRS and SEC? And getting those audits done timely and working with deadlines?
You must be referring to some other CPA other than Certified Public Accountant where at least 4 months out of the year the work week can be 75 hours or more and there is no 9 to 5 time clock and of course you are also expected to work at home on your own time and travel and be away from home and family.
As I said, all jobs involve tradeoffs, but I think you are glossing over a few things unless CPA is really standing for something else in your case, or you are fortunate enough to not be using your license in this manner.
I think all people who do their job well deserve respect, and I admire those who choose teaching as a career and do it well, especially when they are doing it because they want to give of themselves. But, they are not on the pedestal that people are putting them and they are putting themselves. Or is it the union who has them convinced of this?
It sounds like you had a problem with "stepping down" from a previous career and maybe that led to you thinking others thought less of you. But, I also do think parents do not take enough time as in the past in kids lives.

I'm going to back Megan up here. Suggesting that being a teacher is "stepping down" in any way is really offensive. I identify with some of the comments made by the CPA as I worked as a revenue manager for a prominent hotel company and then returned to teaching. The disrespect and negative attitude towards teachers really does hurt you on a daily basis. You feel like you are giving everything you have to these kids and no one appreciates you. It is easy to feel misunderstood and as if people are constantly passing judgement on you because you work in a high profile profession. You see evidence of that right here on these boards.

I have said it before and I'll say it again. Good teachers deserve the money they make and more, but because of the way schools are funded, we simply can not feasibly make the money we deserve. I am sure there are a lot of people in a lot of jobs that deserve more money than they make as well.

Cut Megan a break here. She is correct about what she says about the many hats that teachers need to wear - and some very important hats at that. Regardless of whether her comments were copied from somewhere else or not, that does not change their validity.

megan-
READ!
I didn't say he was stepping down, I was giving an opinion on why HE had difficulty dealing with the change in professions - and used quotes to make this point.
Get it?

I said :
It sounds like you had a problem with "stepping down" from a previous career ...

If you choose to believe that is what I meant, go ahead - but I put those in quotes for that very reason!!!
And once again, was offering an analysis because sometimes we have preconceived notions about ourselves and superimpose them on others to explain someones actions or reactions.
Again, get it?

But Megan, I will say I think you do have an overinflated opinion of yourself and what you give to a student.

Sorry Holly - can't cut her a break.
When someone parades around insinuating how great a teacher they are yet in just a few comments, makes so many glaring errors and misses in logic, and the topic is teachers and what they feel they are entitled to-
NO BREAKS will be given. If this is what our money is going for, then adjust down. Because if this is what a teacher brings to the table, what do our children walk away from the classroom with? And, as I write, I know I may make several errors, such as ending a sentence with a preposition,... BUT, I am not a teacher!

Yes, lyn, I would be meaning CPA as in Certified Public Accountant. And, yes, lyn, I work my rear off and all kinds of overtime hours doing my job as a CPA. I didn't like doing all that work as a CPA. That is why I changed careers. And after having worked both jobs, I can tell you from first hand experience that I worked longer hours and had a much more difficult job as a teacher. Like you, I thought teaching was an easy job with short hours and great perks. I was so wrong. A teacher's job is extremely challenging and way, way too stressful. Teachers don't get paid enough.

Try teaching for a few years, lyn, and I guarantee you will be singing a different tune. You speak from hearsay. I speak from experience.

Sadly, people are not listening to teachers these days. Your best teaching candidates have been leaving the field within their first few years of teaching. And they will continue to do so. Why would anyone pay for two college degrees and then a lifetime of continuing education courses to be paid such a miniscule salary of a teacher (compared to others at the same education level) and be treated so horribly? Teachers go into teaching because they love the kids and it is pathetic for our society to take advantage of that and not give them the respect and pay they deserve.

I really loved teaching and I could have been a great teacher. But I was not willing to give up so much of my family to do it. God bless those who do.

And just to clarify for you, lyn:
I did not have any issues "stepping down" from a previous career. The sense of disrespect I felt as a teacher came from parents and community members much like you.

CPA-
I don't think I attacked you, in fact any possibility of being misunderstood was explained and I paid a compliment to you in saying "I think all people who do their job well deserve respect, and I admire those who choose teaching as a career and do it well, especially when they are doing it because they want to give of themselves."
However, if you feel that I am not entitled to my opinion on what I feel fair pay and benefits would be, then throw digs my way. But, keep in mind that this reminds people of the current behavior of the teachers. No valuable negotiations can be accomplished when one side says a fair amount needs to be decided and another throws insults in return. You have a standstill.

Tina-
I was thinking the same thing.
What if the community were to somehow publicly show support for the Board, assuming they are supporting the taxpayers interests as we would like them to?
But do it in a much more dignified manner than these low class protestors did. They really have done themselves damage twice over now, but I think they lack any comprehension of how foolish they look. This mob mentality has them all blindly mouthing the same words that the public just doesn't support, yet they seem convinced they are God's gift and can't be replaced.

Without knowing what the position of the teachers or the school board is or what issues they are haggling over, you don't even know what you would be showing support FOR. Perhaps a better avenue would be to try and contact someone who could give you more information as to what the issues up for debate are.

Maybe the teachers are upset over class size numbers being raised. Do you want to support your kids being in a class of 40? Perhaps they are upset over a request to teach additional classes in a day. Do you want the quality of instruction for your kids to be jeopardized because teachers do not have enough time to plan engaging, research-based lessons? I think we need more information here.

So much wrong in your comment.
Based on your comment, by switching the teachers in Strongsville with those in Cleveland, would mean crime goes down in Cleveland and up in Strongsville. And those in Cleveland are not as good as those here. And, I guess then that according to you a teacher in Berea isn't as good as one in Strongsville. THAT I take issue with, as even though I do not always agree with Holly, based on reading all her past comments, I would much rather have her and others like her in our system than what we have many of now. Teachers take jobs in other districts for many reasons, including that they may be in their hometown or that they feel they can make a valuable contribution elsewhere because of dedication to feeling they are filling a districts need - that is, a dedication to their profession and students they want to help and better their lives than what they have now. Some get satisfaction out of seeing improvements made in young peoples lives. How dare you be so critical of others in your own profession just because they don't make top dollar. That is not a value I want taught to my children. Besides, those teaching in poorer districts have many much harder job teaching because of the problems their students already have - just take a look at the poem you have plagiarized below and tell me which district's teacher has a more difficult job and deserves to be paid more.

I don't think she is to far off. What part don't you agree with? When schools go down hill people move and stop coming here. When the population decreases, business leave. When business leaves, the tax base lowers. When the tax base leaves, the overall "niceness" of the city deteriorates and the value of all of our houses goes down. It doesn't happens overnight but eventually you are Parma.

As James Murphy said:
really megan where is the sign that says that parents cannot move their criminal kids into strongsville and let them attend the schools
teachers do not prevent kids from becoming criminals parents do

BUT THANK YOU MEGAN I DO AGREE WITH WHAT YOU DID POST

"The teachers need to be paid what they deserve, and they derserve at least what surrounding cities are paying."

WHICH OTHER LOCAL TEACHERS ARE PAID LESS AFTER BENEFITS THEN STRONGSVILLE TEACHERS MAKE ON THEIR CURRENT CONTRACT

And I'll add,
And, to add to James comment regarding Megan saying
"The teachers ... derserve at least what surrounding cities are paying."

Guess the teachers deserve a big paycut!?

Abe - She's blaming the teachers in those higher crime areas. Just because someone chooses to work in a more difficult area and pull a smaller pay check does not mean they are less qualified. In fact, they have more hardships to deal with and should be given more credit for choosing that environment. You can't just equate pay with quality of teacher. We are not talking about Harvard Law Review and a top law firm.

James,
Your point is not sound, if you want to talk about the salaries of teachers then if you are going to include teachers in the top tier, you must also include those teachers in the bottom tier. In addition, those top tier teachers have a master's degree. Secodly you assume they work 184 days. I assume that is what is in their contract but many teachers work MANY more days and simply are not "paid" for it.
Do you know the administrator's salaries, or the directors' of (fill in the blank)?

Jane -
If that seemed too high, then why not talk about the median or average salary of all teachers, including the 10% paid by the district, as this is paid in lieu of salary.
For year 2009-2010, as in comment at top:
$75,634 True median teacher salary ($74,371 average)

jane the 80,000 number is what 150 of the teachers make I am not talking about the as you put it "teachers in the bottom tier" who as you also put it do not have "a master's degree" (your playing point and shift games)

as to your second part of your answer the 184 days is their contract 9 months same days and teachers days mon-fri
( all my kids do sports at the schools on weekends and I have yet to see teachers working at schools on sat-sundays ( im sure it happens but it is the exception not the rule) and if you are talking about the teachers bringing their work home, that has become the "norm" in many other occupations
As to your last part "Do you know the administrator's salaries, or the directors' of (fill in the blank)? and the answer is yes !! why?? what does that question have to do with the 150 teachers with masters in the 80k range I am using as the example
(again with the playing point and shift games)

so jane without pointing elsewhere I will ask in a very simple manner
the teachers with masters and seniority who right now make
$80,869.00 with 33,000.00 three year employee salary match pension contribution on a 184 day work year not to mention pension pickups and what is it 75$ hospitalization
what do you think the board should offer that group of teachers from their current level ?????
(just using that group as a example)

The post about the lifetime freeeze was read last night, must have been deleted or came from another blog. From the videos it appears that teachers want to settle. Tax dollars pay for the board's lawyer. I am positive it is public record how much money he has been paid. Union dues from teachers salaries pay for theirs.
If you want to know the board's proposal you should ask them. You have a right to know. You appear to be avid commentor on this blog, maybe you can tell me why people call teachers "kids" and bash them, stating they should get grown up jobs like normal people who cant retire until 65. And yet your community passed a levy to increase your police and firemen's salaries by something like 7 percent over the course of a few years. Does the community realize they need only 25 years into their retirement? They can retire at 48 years of age.

Jane Smith is very good at Disinformation and diversion games (asking questions of questions without answering either) John Doe has taught her well

Not to knock police or fire because they of course provide a crucial community service, but no one ever does seem to complain about their raises. Is it because they "risk their lives" everyday. Have you READ the police blotter? I'll help old ladies in wheelchairs go get their pizza for lunch because the sidewalks are slushy or ban people not wearing shirts from the local mall if it means people won't complain about giving me a raise. Hell, I'll even do it without a firearm to protect me. The latest series of school shootings and the ALICE training I had to receive to show me how to protect my students in case of an intruder seem to make me think I might be risking my life as a teacher as well.

Oh, and by the way, the full retirement age for teachers is now 60 with 35 years of service. Since I started teaching when I was 22, this means I will not be able to retire until I have taught for 37 years.

Why is it that these comments are so very similar to those that ran in the Brecksville Patch during their negotiation process?
I think I have my answer. Once the attorney was mentioned, I was curious. But funny how the same accusations with the teacher kids and same line saying the teachers dues pays for the attorneys. Way too many coincidences. I smell union games!
As for the taxpayers paying for the lawyers, isn't that who should since the taxpayer is the employer, the other party to the contract in essence? And, if the union drags it out, then that is one more thing to thank the teachers and union for costing us more money for.

Jane for the record
are you saying being a teacher is more important of a job than the police and firefighters ???
YES OR NO

And, I might be wrong - but I don not think the taxpayers had any vote in any levy to increase police and fire salaries as you say. So, I hope what you are speaking is true or this is one more union tactic to chalk up as garbage.

HOLLY did you read what the police are doing with their wage increase
"Human Resources Director Steve Kilo said the police officers wanted the larger increase this year because contributions to their state retirement plan will increase this July."
NOW HOW DOES THAT COMPARE TO THE TEACHERS CONTRIBUTIONS TO THEIR RETIREMENT PLAN

Jean, I don't recall saying that teachers are more valuable than police or fire. I did however imply that many of you think that police and fire are more valuable than teachers since you don't complain about the raises they are getting, yet you complain incessantly about raises that you're not even sure the teachers are asking for (since we don't know what upset them during negotiations)!

How often does the average citizen benefit from the services of a firefighter? A police officer? Hopefully, not that often as it means something bad has happened. How often does the average citizen benefit from the services of a teacher? 9 months a year for 13 years?

Again, I am NOT saying that teachers are more valuable, I am saying they ARE valuable TOO. I use the incidents from the police blotter to add a bit of perspective - Strongsville cops are not the cops from the movies. Every call is not a murder, car chase, or robbery. I recall another post on this same topic (which is why "risking their lives" was in quotes - because I was quoting a previous post. You are very versed in that yourself.).

As you refer to me previously deleting my posts, why don't you be so kind as to enlighten our readers as to why I had to do that? Oh, it was because you were falsely assuming I was someone I wasn't because you couldn't figure out how to google my name.

I do believe that all city workers in Strongsville have the pickup on the pickup just like the school employees do. I think that many of the public state retirement plans were not solvent and raised their percentage that the members have to pay and that new percentage is not part of the pickup on the pickup so they will see more coming out of their paychecks for retirement.

I heard they were thinking of bringing back 8-tracks
one person said it so it must be true

You assume it is propaganda, but what if it were true? Why not find out?

Do any of your children go to Strongsville City Schools? Was there not one teacher you would stand up for? Not one? Not a single one that deserves better then what is being said about them?

you brought the police contract up not I
(again with the playing point and shift games)
nobody ever said anything about the pay its the perks that need to be brought back into 2013 economy norms which everyone needs to contribute more for the common good

when was the last time a group of teachers went to a school board meeting demanding better books and equipment for the kids future

Jane every time a levy comes up the school board knows the taxpayers positions the school also knows that the chances of another levy passing if the teachers do not start paying for their own pensions
so the school board has some tough choices hold firm and let the teachers strike (teachers will cave) but earn the taxpayers trust
or give into the teachers but never pass another levy again (taxpayers will not cave) until the cuts start removing teachers and increasing class sizes and supplies(since you claim teachers are paying for all school supplies now)

To quote myself "Again, I am NOT saying that teachers are more valuable, I am saying they ARE valuable TOO."

It is not always an either/or, black/white, better/worse - sometimes things can be equally as important.

Why don't we start complaining about all of our tax money that goes to welfare or unemployment?

Jean, Good god, I NEVER EVER posted "teachers are paying for all school supplies now". Where did you pull that one out of? Nevermind, I am sure it came from the same place as all your other previous posts. Increasing class sizes is your answer. I am sure parents will love that!!! Why dont you call the city and found out how many students are in classes? Some of the english. math. and social studies are at 35 and a year ago the sciences classes were at 36. Heck, lets keep in goping and and load them up until 50, but then expect Cleveland results (low scores, etc). Would you allow your child into a science classroom with 35 students? Those teachers run labs with fire and other cautious material. You should state what you mean. You are tired of paying too much in taxes and you want the brunt to be on the students. You dont care about them. You care about your pocketbook.

Jean,
Please keep in mind some of those board members are using their position as a stepping stone. Some are looking at future seats in different organizations (state rep, etc). They may also have their own agenda as to why they are serving on the board of education.

Holly,
You dont have to keep defending yourself. You know what you said. You were quite clear. You can explain it over and over, she will never hear it, because she chooses not to. Keep your chin up. Remember, she also clearly stated what she thinks about teachers. They are not valuable. That is where her entire rage comes from. Let her rage on. Eventually she'll get tired and take a nap or something.

Lyn .......But Jane Smith is not a teacher She is just a concerned Strongsville taxpayer wanting to spend more of her tax dollars

Tom,
Heck no. I too do not want my tax dollar raised, but unlike some of you I think it would be wise to figure out a better way instead of bashing a single group of people because WE ARE ALL STRUGGLING. Bad economy....gotta be those teachers faults. High taxes....gotta be those teachers. Havent seen a raise.....gotta be those teachers. Please read my earlier blogs before you post something you know nothing about. Keep it to the facts and dont assume you know something about a person. Instead seek out the truth.

just 5 huh exaggerate much ,,......................... yes you do

Does a company exist for its employees? NO - the owners and shareholders
Does a school exist for the teachers? NO - the children and community

So, why is this whole thing upside down that the employees, the teachers, think they are so entitled to more than FAIR? At some point demanding too much DOES start to look greedy and ridiculous and lopsided. You have to be realistic - people only have so much money, and you can't keep taking from them. Any sacrifices the teachers might have to make are nothing in comparison to what the general public has had to do. Keep taking and taking and at some point, maybe not this contract, but in the future you teachers will find no one is supporting you. You should not be surprised that people are being more frustrated with teachers attitudes about what they think they are entitled to - when you keep reaching into peoples pockets and there's not much there to begin with, people WILL get mad and expect that you should be equal with them at some point. Keep it up and the attitude of the community will only get worse.

Lyn, there are some major flaws in your logic here. A teacher shouldn't make more than the median income of the community they work in because the taxpayers are their "bosses" and they shouldn't make more than the "boss"?

So, Cleveland teachers should make less than $24,687 because that is the median household income?

So, the president (also paid by tax payers who are his "boss") shouldn't make more than $52,762 because that is the median household income in the US?

Not to mention the fact that median household income figures include people who do not own property and do not pay property taxes and therefore are not the "boss" of the teacher.

Everyone pays everyone's salary! Every time I spend money (not just tax dollars), I am paying someone's salary. Some of those people make more than me, some less. That's the way it goes. If I don't make enough money to support the lifestyle I want, that is up to ME to make changes in MY life to get what I want.

Ahh.... I have finally figured you out lyn. You hate teachers with such tunnel vision, you cant see beyond it. Wow, you should have paid more attention in school. Your logic is so flawed. Please see Holly's note bleow. So I should basically tell my extended family that are teachers they should "stay in their places", becausse you are going to make sure of it. Wow....reminds me of another time.
Allow me to quote lyn since she is soooo found of quoting others, "until the cuts start removing teachers and increasing class sizes". We know where you stand you do not care about education, you care about your pocketbook.
We do agree on one point teachers are entitled to a FAIR compensation and benefits package. Does that include them paying more for the benefits? pension? I dont know, I do not have any answers yet because I do not have all the facts. BUT, the people to figure that out cannot include you because you are prejudiced agaisnt them.

Holly-You are right about that Cleveland comparison. But be realistic. We are talking about Strongsville Call it middle class - are teachers better than middle class? IT IS ridiculous that ONE of our teachers sit better than ONE household, made up of 2.6-3.0 people, depending on what site you go to. The rest of your argument shows that you are struggling to disprove my point.
YES! The rest of your argument is nonsense - comparing to the President?
Teachers do a wonderful thing, teaching our children. And everyone else contributes to society as well. I am tired of teachers lifting themselves up to holy status - because this is what we now have, that they feel so entitled and above others. Teachers are not better than other people and I'm tired of them throwing this attitude out there. If they were so much better, they would not act as they did at the meeting - they'd have a little dignity and humility.
Just like I can't believe that you have put down police and firemen because they rarely work (my words summarizing your comment). You said police spend most of their time doing things like helping a lady in a wheelchair. Sorry, Holly, but I DO think their job is quite valuable, possibly even more important than a teachers. Lets see what that person calling 911 thinks when their life is in danger. I don't have a problem with firemen getting paid for only going to a few fires a year - what if its rescuing your family?
Teachers-get over yourselves!

Jane-
I'd like to go back and read my comment that you pulled this from. Would you please provide the link with the day and time so I can reread my whole comment? Maybe an apology is due from me if I misspoke.

You said:
Allow me to quote lyn since she is soooo found of quoting others, "until the cuts start removing teachers and increasing class sizes".

JANE I thought you were leaving the blog ---->
Jane Smith
9:00 pm on Saturday, February 9, 2013
Well folks I will leave the blog to the five of you to continue the teacher bashing

Jane-
RE:"We do agree on one point teachers are entitled to a FAIR compensation and benefits package. Does that include them paying more for the benefits? pension? I dont know, I do not have any answers yet because I do not have all the facts. BUT, the people to figure that out cannot include you because you are prejudiced agaisnt them."

So, only those favoring the teachers are allowed to make this decision?
I would think that you WOULD want someone like me on the other side, because if you are going to have both sides represented, you would want someone who has continually said that teachers make a valuable contribution and should be compensated fairly, as compared to other jobs and society as well. Why wouldn't you want someone who is bringing this attitude to the table, although feels that they receive too much? Someone has to be the opposing view, and you should want one who appreciates good teachers, but could do without the holier than though attitude and feeling they should be overly compensated.

Holly-
RE: "If I don't make enough money to support the lifestyle I want, that is up to ME to make changes in MY life to get what I want."

EXACTLY! That goes for teachers too! Especially since they have 3 months off to do this. Just don't force the taxpayers to pay for the lifestyle you want.

Lyn, believe me, it is not my choice to be paid by the taxpayers. This is the job I chose and the job I am good at. If I could be paid in some other way I would gladly take it. Maybe then I would have a "boss" that appreciates the work that I do. Until that happens though, don't hold the way schools are funded against me. I certainly didn't design the system.

As for my lifestyle, I hardly live in excess. I expect to be able to have a place to live, a car to drive, food to eat, and a job to go to. I want my kid to have the chance for those things as well and the only way he is going to have that chance is through a good education. We have that in this city, I got that education in this city as well - I just don't want people like you to screw that up before he even makes it to Kindergarten.

Jane -
Where
are
you?
Where did I make that comment, please?

Jane-
Come one , Jane.
Where did I say what you are quoting me in your comment of 11:40 am on Sunday, February 10, 2013?
Is it out of context or is it something I need to apologize for or did I not even say that?
Please provide link, day and time - or is this like your constant repeating of rumors that you won't back up?

Jane-
Since you posted a comment just after my first request for you to reference where and when
what you allege I said that you put in quotes, I know you did see my comment - and I have asked 2 more time, very politely, for the day and time and where, and I was willing to apologize if necessary-
I can only assume you are dodging my request and that it is not my quote or an accurate quote, let alone even being taken out of context.

So, I will further assume you have come on here to not only continue to spread rumors that you will not back up, but you engage in attributing to me things I did not say.
Your silence has left me coming to no other conclusion.

Nice union type tactics.
Spread rumors and destroy the "oppositions" credibility!

Please, EVERYONE THIS BLOG IS FOR OPINION....NOT FACT! So, we are suppose to give opinions but not facts? Wow I am in the wrong blog!
Now am I claiming I know all the facts? NO! But i readily admit that. But I also say, I am willing to find out the facts and not let my decision ride on a biased opinion. I am only suggesting you do the same. See, I like to believe in the goodness of people, that those teachers would not be up in arms over silly, trivial matters. From previous blogs, they all received pink slips the first day of school.....no demonstrations. They took pay freezes and contributed more to their health care......no demonstrations. They took an extra class.....no demonstrations. For the most part, from what I hear, they treat those students up there great. Your scores are wonderful, you have tons of national merit kids, scholarshops, your students are college ready, etc. I cant help but think to myself, why? what would cause them to be so upset? I am using logic. I am putting myself in their shoes. First, what if it were truly true? What if the rumors had a ring of truth to them? What would you say then? Would you look feel like a fool? I am going with my gut, the one that believes in the goodness of people: I think you should feel like a fool.

Jane smith may I ask what city do you live in ?

Jane-
What?
Opinion...Fact? HUH?
BOTH could be on here.
But not the constant spreading of unsubstantiated rumors. And, when asked about them, you can't back it up and continue to say the same thing.
Is that opinion or fact? Neither!

So, based on what you are saying, take these same teachers, put them in Cleveland - and then - MAGIC! Cleveland has the same scores that Strongsville does! I do think you have a slightly higher opinion than you should.

And, I guess we can tell those teaching in the schools with lower scores that those teachers are not as good.
Also, if they don't get paid as much, they must not be as god.
Right? That's your logic - right?

That's funny, I feel this story could also be interpreted another way. Perhaps the teachers are the frog, providing a service to the community (the scorpion). I know I sure feel "stung" by some of the attitudes on here.

Unions can go away and it will not solve the problem. You will still have to pay teachers and if you fail to pay them adequately they will just find a job with a hell of a lot less stress. Then what will we be left with as far as an education system? I hope you like home schooling.

remember one thing Holly children CAN be home schooled and sent to private schools SO without public schools, children will still learn (unless you want to suggest that private schools and home-school parents are lesser people) careers are taught at collage not grade school

Private schooling and home schooling are the right choices for some families. The requirements for the person teaching are much more relaxed than in public schools, but if you are fine with that, then that type of education has other merits. I know I could not teach physics to my kid and would rather trust someone who is educated in that particular area to do so. Careers are chosen and taught in college, but the basis for those skills comes in the K-12 world. If it didn't, we would just wait until the kids were 18 and ship them off to Duke.

Correct Holly and K-12 CAN be by taught home schooling and at private schools, which makes city school teachers a public convenience

Public schools are a public convenience and we pay for that convenience with our tax dollars. Personally, I think it is well worth it. Educating even 1 kid is a huge job if you do it correctly. Either my husband or I would need to quit our job to do it. Sending him to private school would also be a big expense. This is just one of the many reasons I support public schools. I believe that MOST teachers are good and care for the kids. I believe that the service is well worth the money I pay when I compare it to other services that I pay way more for and do not contribute as much to my families life. Someone paid for me to go to school and I will continue to pay for other peoples children to have the opportunity to go to school. I have seen what happens when public education is taken during the time I spent in Mexico. I don't want that to happen to our kids - for them to have nowhere to go, no way to escape whatever situation they were born into. Public education is the best way to accomplish this. Not every parent feels they themselves know enough to home school their child. Not every parent can afford or believes in a religious education. These are exactly the reasons why public schools were created in the first place.

Hey Holly – you said, “Unions can go away and it will not solve the problem.” Just what is your interpretation of “the problem”?

I think that maybe your interpretation may be somewhat different from mine.

T Jefferson, I think there are a host of problems with our education system, and I think teachers are the least of them. I think the way our schools are funded is a huge problem that no one can seem to fix. I think the way we measure our students "success" through standardized testing is a problem. I think some of what we are required to teach is a problem (the average person needs a class on home repair more than they need calculus). I think all the red tape and unfunded mandates handed down from the state are a problem. I often fantasize about starting my own school and making it exactly the way things "should" be.

Honestly, the only thing I need a union for is to make sure that my work environment doesn't become such that it is impossible for me to do my job; to keep the number of classes I have to teach reasonable, to keep the prep time I have reasonable, to keep my class sizes reasonable. I don't need them to protect my job - my performance does that. I know if unions didn't exist and they decided to just start firing people, I would be one of the last to go. So, no, I wouldn't cry if unions were gone, but I would still expect to be paid a decent and fair wage. I would not expect to have to take a pay cut.

I agree the way schools are funded is terrible!
Just because a child lives in a poorer area as Cleveland or Lorain, should that mean they have less available to them than those in Strongsville or Solon or Orange? I'm not just talking teachers - I'm talking things like buildings and books and computers.
What if all teachers in the state were paid the same, just as I believe all state workers are on a payscale. But that might mean the top paying schools would have teachers taking a cut to equalize all schools. And, if taking from Solon to pay Lorain - well, shouldn't those kids in Lorain have their teachers paid as much as other school? And, those in poorer areas have many more hardships to deal with and have a much harder job to do.

so concerned resident !!! how do you know this ???? ------>
"Don't forget these teachers go home and spend hours on end grading essays, tests, and other things. They technically do work hours than they spend at the school"

concerned resident
joined the patch 11:38 am on Sunday, February 10, 2013
<first post>

good points, right on the money! The only other issue is the benefit which Teachers seems to disregard which is the tremendous amount of, and length, relative to their pen$ions!

Very well said Michelle. I am astounded at the nastiness I am reading in this thread. If I were a teacher reading this I would feel so discouraged. I would never encourage one of my children to be a teacher with all the negativity surrounding the profession. Seems as if teachers can never be the perfect people they are expected to be. They dont work enough hours, they steal our hard earned money, they don't go into the profession purely for altruistic reasons, and on and on. Who needs that?

Michelle nobody has any issue with the salary teachers receive BUT with the amount teachers pay for their taxpayer funded benefits------------where is it written that everyone elses costs for retirement and healthcare can go up but not the teachers

Michelle of the $10,000.00 that goes into the teachers pension fund per teacher every year ask how much of that money comes from our Strongsville teachers

It is my understanding that according to the teachers contracts, we pickup and pay for the entire teachers portions of their retirement contributions

I'm sorry that I cannot contribute to the arguments for or against the issues raised regarding pay/benefits. I can only comment on my personal experience with the teachers in Strongsville City School District. I just don't have enough factual information to comment, and would only be sharing my "feelings" not facts regarding benefits/pay.

do all the other area schools pay the teachers share also ??/or is this just done in strongsville

Lyn

fyi...

Since 1994, pension pick ups gradually grew to 10.2% current level. They were parceled out (in conjunction with)to help offset below asked for raises. Not sure when district started paying the tax on the pick up as well...or when the "hidden raise" on 3rd level pick up started. But, Strongsville is one of the 5% of 613 districts statewide which provides this "shangri la" luxury

According to former treasurer, Parkinson (my former e mail pal)-in 2011 stated that current agreement has district capped at current 10.2% of 11% total employee pension contribution share. Future phased in hikes to 14% supposed to be borne by employees-not the district.

As noted in earlier comment I made-- well over $60million spent 1994-present on pension pick ups, etc.....I estmate current school year cost at $2.7 to $3 million

TSW

Strongsville Resident, to my best knowledge, this is common practice in districts in this area. The district I work for does the same. Basically, an amount of money equivalent to 10% of our salary is put into STRS for us. This money is not included in our salary as quoted. This is negotiated into our contract and could be up for discussion during any negotiation. I will be honest though, I would not enjoy the prospect of taking a 10% pay cut...nor would anyone. When this was originally negotiated, it took the place of salary increases. Most people would be fine with not getting a raise (in my district this hasn't happened in awhile anyway), but a pay cut of that size would be a tough sell. I don't think people working in the private sector have taken 10% pay cuts, even in this economy.

Strongsville Res-
I also have wondered how many have been doing this, because I had heard not many districts do this. Last week I found this article form 9-26-2010 that mentions only 29 of 613 districts in Ohio do this, and only 3 are in the Cleveland are. So, that would be- Strongsville; since Holly said she works for Berea, I guess that; and that leaves ??? It does mention Perry Local Schools, but I don't know if that would be considered Cleveland area.
And, that number is about right with what TSW said - only 5%.

http://www.mansfieldnewsjournal.com/article/20100927/NEWS01/9260332/Schools-perk-pads-pensions

Article has some interesting info, including:
"The pension systems representing teachers and school employees then allowed pension pickups to be considered salary.
The systems representing state and municipal employees, and police and fire employees declined."

Since these payments were made in lieu of raises, any comparison of Strongsville's salary to other districts needs to consider this. That is - add 10.2% (% per TSW) to whatever number is given for Strongsville's salary. Otherwise, its not a true comparison.
For instance:
$68,758 Median teacher salary 2009-2010 ($67,610 average salary) per ODE
+$6,876 The 10% TEACHERS retirement contribution in lieu of salary ($6,761 average)
_______
$75,634 True median teacher salary ($74,371 average)

Anyone else?

Jane are you saying that the teachers are actually getting 10% more than their posted salary ??? and that money is being supplied by the tax payers ???

I guess it all depends on what number someone thinks is large enough to be considered common.

However, I think most reading this would think the number of districts doing this in Ohio is UNCOMMON-
(per info 2 years old)

29 out of 613 - 5%

And, as the article I referenced says,
"Ohio's other three retirement funds decline to participate."
Doesn't seem to be something many look upon well.

yes strongville resident that is exactly correct -- in a better economy this extra "income" would be fine, but with almost all households trying to make due with stagnant incomes and rising healthcare costs, it seems pretty arrogant of the teachers to DEMAND that their pay be the exception to the rules with raises and benefits for all

gee holly I cannot figure out why all the strongsville taxpayers are so upset ????? just because we pay all of the teachers benefits and they do not have to contribute anything .

James, you are allowed to be upset, jealous, whatever. I am a taxpayer and I pay the Strongsville teachers benefits too. All I am saying is that you can't blame the teachers for that. Most of them weren't even around when that was negotiated. Talk to your school board or whoever is negotiating the contract on the other side and blame them if they don't do what you want. Changes are already happening that will increase the amount that we contribute to our retirement, so things are moving in the direction that you want. Be patient and don't hold against me something I have no control over. I don't negotiate my contract, I just sign it and show up for work and do the best job I can do. I try to hold my head up, teach my kids, and be proud of the job I do in the face of all these people hating me.

I am not sure why it makes that much of a difference whether it is the employer or employee paying into the retirement anyway. If you pay my salary, then if they take the 10% out of my salary and have me put it into retirement, then you are still paying for it. Since you pay my salary, you are paying for my house, my car, my electricity, and my cat's food. Does this mean you have a right to tell me where to live or what car to drive? Where does it end? I don't pay my electric bill each month and then decide that I have the right to tell the electricians how much they should make. It's just ridiculous to me that a teacher has to answer to all 44,000 taxpayers in the city.

I like the other parts of your original comment-
" Also, since they have found it okay to be disruptive - they will be nothing but hypocrites when they discipline a student for being disruptive."
and
" and all the time they spend preparing tests-more garbage! Tests are either done on the computer or are reused year after year."

And is it true-
"Parents aren't even entitled to get the question portion of a test anymore - we only get the answer sheet."

It's too bad that you have never met any of the great teachers that I worked with in Strongsville.

There are great teachers in Strongsville for sure - unfortunately - the bad ones seem to outnumber the good ones....and when it comes to a child's education - there is no room for bad teachers. I can't wait until they are accountable!

Lyn, this new version of SB5 that excludes fire and police is already in the works. The politicians have figured out that teachers make great scapegoats. It's just sad that you forget that in this dehumanized and villianized group you call "teachers" there are some really good, hard working, and deserving people.

If the law changes regarding pension pick up, we will deal with it, but I don't think you will see people giving it up before they absolutely have to. You pay for the fire and police pensions too - but they are heroes and I am just a greedy, lazy teacher in your opinion. I wish in some way that you could get to know me and what I do because I really think you would like me and that I would change your opinion about teachers or at least see that there are others like me that are proud of their profession and genuinely hurt by these negative perceptions.

Holly-
I don't think you have really read ALL my comments in their entirety, including where I said:
"THAT I take issue with, as even though I do not always agree with Holly, based on reading all her past comments, I would much rather have her and others like her in our system than what we have many of now."
and
"Holly- Nicely said."

And, I have said, just because one disagrees with what is considered a fair compensation and benefits package, that does not mean they hate teachers. But, their poor behavior, superior attitude and demands that are out of whack with the times and what the general public is dealing with - the result will be that people will transfer those feelings of disgust to disdain for the profession. I am not there yet, but many are - and if you step back, I would think you can at least see how that can happen. There is a lot of anger over people expecting more of them when they are given less and less in todays economy, because public employees DO have much better job security and benefits compared to most and the taxpayer pays for it. And, that term "jealousy" that people throw around is so childish. It is logical for people to feel this way.

Lyn, I do hope you see that I am not a lazy, greedy teacher. I have read your comments and I appreciate the compliments. I guess I just love my job and can sometimes take things too personally or to heart.

Holly anyone who has taken the time to read ALL of your posts can tell that you are not a lazy, greedy teacher.
you are however making an attempt and trying to be a loyal union member while at the same time not trying to be a hypocrite about the probable (repeat probable) excesses that are probably on the table at this time

this was posted earlier and fits what you just wrote
James Murphy

Correct Holly and K-12 CAN be by taught home schooling and at private schools, which makes city school teachers a public convenience

Tracy, you don't consider a teacher to be a manager? A bonus to not have to manage employees? Wow! You have never had to run a classroom. I manage 28 teenagers every class period, over 140 of them a day. They are forced to be there, which some are not too pleased about. I praise, reward, and reprimand just like a manager would do.

In my previous job I managed 50 adult employees who were getting paid to be at work for pretty much the same money. Which do you think was more challenging?

Holly-
I think wrong comparison.
Students are not like employees one would manage.
Students would be more like customers or clients or patients.

Lyn, I didn't say they were my employees, but I definitely have to manage them. Classroom management is one of the most important skills a teacher can have. If you are not a good classroom manager, it is going to be a hell of a lot harder for learning to take place. At least an employee receives financial compensation and can be fired. Try managing a group of people who are receiving a form of compensation (knowledge) that may or may not hold value to them. You are responsible for them to learn (their job so to speak), but if they don't do it, you can't fire them. I would hazard to say that less adults get in fist fights at their jobs, come high, steal from each other, cheat, use foul language, are blatantly disrespectful to their boss, or any other host of things that teachers deal with on a daily basis. Trust me, it is more difficult than managing employees - I have done both.

That's why they are more like a customer or client or patient.

No I don't see teachers as a student manager because you are not the singular point of control, I tend to think its more like a mentoring type of role. You are right you can't fire them but you (well the school can) can expel them.

That is an excellent proposition that I hope Strongsville looks at

The article doesn't say it was specifically for that, although I am sure that was a topic of conversation. It just says open to residents to express concerns about the schools - I would say school funding falls into that category. Do you know if they do these regularly? I haven't really noticed them until now.

my wife went to it and that's what she mentioned it was about

7/9 Meeting - No Progress
9am-12noon (4 hrs.)
7/10 Meeting - Cancelled
10/16 Meeting - No Progress
5pm-8pm (3 hrs)
10/30 Meeting - No Progress
5pm-8pm (3 hrs)
11/28 Meeting - No Progress
5pm-8pm (3 hrs)
12/3 Meeting - No Progress
5pm-8pm (3 hrs)
1/9 Meeting - No Progress
1pm-4pm (3 hrs)
1/29 Meeting - No Progress
1/30 Meeting - SEA Declares
Impasse. Future meetings
will be held with a
Mediator.
2/6 Meeting - No Progress.
SEA submits another
proposal to be met with
superficial and cosmetic
response.

Oh and SEA CO when 300 teachers arrive LATE for a meeting and then LEAVE before the meeting ends THAT is disruptive ...............wait...................this just in..........urgent communique from the taxpayers of strongsville.....................GO AHEAD AND STRIKE...............the substitutes and we the parents will educate our own kids while you go bankrupt

I agree with Tom M and stand with the school board, go out on strike

SEA -You don't think this was an accurate portrayal of your groups lousy behavior?
Well, how about another article:
http://www.thepostnewspapers.com/strongsville/local_news/article_6d07bf70-fa01-57cf-8723-2c0841bd3754.html

Maybe the fact that the meeting continued on is more of a reflection on the Board than you - maybe they set an example for how people should conduct themselves. Were you hoping for some other reaction? Sorry, the only reaction you will get is more negative each time you clowns put on this circus. Sometimes best to remain silent and forget the signs and buttons - juvenile!

And, I had to chuckle when I read your phrase "the motherland" instead of "our motherland". Makes me think of Russia and socialism. Was that intentional, a slip or how you talk?

Also - who is this SEA - a person writing this or a group? In FB it says "The funny thing is that I will be proud to hold my head high as to what the SEA proposed for negotiations" - so it looks like it is actually just a person.
Too bad this SEA group of people only use their FB for when they are making demands for themselves. It was created in 2011 for the last contract and then used when they campaigned against Issue 2 to get rid of SB5, and now is revived during this round of contract talks.
Too bad this is their only concern over the last 2 years, no concern for the schools or students or parents or community.
We are to believe that they aren't just thinking of themselves in contract talks?

SEA Communique----- a very well written post, unfortunately I must agree with my fellow taxpayers, go on strike,you can stand outside all year for all I care, with all the new graduate teachers out there and parents at home willing to teach our children,you might find out how few supporters you have

Please represent the interests of your students, their parents, and taxpayers - YOUR COMMUNITY!

Lyn we mere citizens could not ever comprehend such a complex contract proposal, which I am sure was written in the language of "the motherland" we must all remember these are the elitist teachers and ---- Ex nihilo nihil fit

Is it about the kids?

My contention is that nobody cares more about the kids than the parents of the kids.

Since it is a parent who cares the most about his or her kids, shouldn't the parent be afforded the option of choosing what they deem to be best school for their kids? And if they are paying $4,000, or $6,000 or $8,000 a year in property taxes, most of which funds education, wouldn't an advocate "for the kids" approve of a parent's ability to put at least some of that education tax money toward a school of his or her choice, which he or she feels would be best for his or her kid?

If a parent were able to use some of the property tax money he or she pays, and divert it toward tuition in a non-government school, would you see that as:

A. Doing what the parent determines to be best for his or her child, or
B. Undermining public education.

My answer is A.

The Ohio Education Association disagrees. This is from the OEA website:

"Charter Schools and Vouchers: Traditional public schools serve 90% of Ohio’s students. Yet, public schools continue to endure funding cuts and the rapid expansion of “choice” programs aimed at undermining public education. Policies that provide taxpayer-funded vouchers to pay for private school tuition and divert public dollars to for-profit charter schools only serve to drain scarce resources from Ohio’s public schools."

Ken -
I also read those but I'm still "unclear" what they mean as the teachers and the contract discuss. Maybe I'm not reading close enough, need breakfast and lunch, or analyzing too closely.

The reason I'm asking is because I came across comments by "pedro34" on cleveland.com. I keep trying to provide the link, but my comment gets rejected. So go to the site, read the article about the teachers raiding the Board meeting and find this guy in the comments area and click on his name.

This pedro fella has part of the contract - the contract that I thought was secret from both the teachers and the public. In summary, it says the Board is proposing:
-convert 9.3% of STRS to salary and eliminate the pick up on the pick up
-effective 2013-14 and after, "no teacher will advance a step or column on the salary schedule. ... (LIFETIME FREEZE)"

So, there is NO mention of lifetime PAY freeze as Jane said. And I would not think that means that a new teacher making $40,000 would be frozen at that for life. If so - I would not agree with that. But it looks like they do get at least 11 years of state required bumps, if I read correctly - so "step" is not an understood word by some of us.

I DO think they should limit how quickly a teacher advances to the high end of the pay scale, eliminate bumps just for getting additional education (I personally know of no one else who gets this), and put a salary cap in place.

OMG!
That "the motherland" speech IS on the Post - it was just delayed in publishing, I guess - because there was only 1 comment when I wrote this above comment.
What a joke.

Thanks!
I think its better to have the right answer than us guessing. Hopefully he'll tell you what is required and what they do locally.

jane must have seen she was making no sense ...since she deleted that whole last section of her posts ..........how would you write that their pay would be frozen at that for life into a 2-4 year contract

I love how the parents worked for more than a year to come up with the charter school proposal, to which the union replied that it doesn't think parents want a charter school.

My parents taught me pretty well and as much as I respect teachers they are not the only ones who teach. I am sure your parents have taught you a thing or two. I agree that the teachers work hard and do a good job, but look at the example they are setting for you. Scream and yell, act out against authority, quit doing your job to get what you want. Is that what your parents taught you? I think not.