unfortunately, that's another part of the work they are volunteering for (i.e. not getting paid to do). 6 hours teaching, 1 hour planning, 1 hour lunch, and more hours at home everyday doing planning, grading, posting stuff online, updating, taking calls is hardly fair when they're only paid for 8 hours. support our teachers so they can actually make a decent living helping the kids. it's not like they are asking for 100k/year for each of them. just some fair treatment that doesn't have them throwing away their time and not getting paid for it.

Christopher Born - I agree but their actions don't add up. Plus, I don't get "paid" for the work that I do on weekends or at night. I knew that when I took my job and was glad to do so. Teachers know what's expected when the joyfully take their first job. And I would agree with you if they had to come up with new lesson plans every year but alas they don't. Much like I would expect a teacher to do, I work smarter as I understand my job better and know when and how to do things more effieciently. No they aren't asking for 100k a year but we aren't asking them to teach full time either.

Christopher-
You said "not like they are asking for 100k/year"
Well, $80,869 for 184 days + 8.5 months
Add in 10 % retirement contribution we pay for THEM, a normal share most teachers in the state pay for themselves - so, plus $8087

That $88,956 for 8.5 months converts to just over $125,000.

Great benefits and be shielded from the nations hard economic times - who cares if people take paycuts and lose jobs, as long as the teachers keep sitting pretty, rught?

Just so you know the posting on the website is a courtesy they do. It is neither required nor do all of the teachers do it. Many have probably stopped related to only doing what's required for the job called a work slow down. Get used to it. If your child has an IEP check what's required for them to do based on that. Following the IEP is required. One of my children had an IEP which required extra time and no hand written work, etc. The teacher failed him and we asked what was going on. Seems the teacher wasn't following the IEP and acted like he hadn't ever seen one. Needles to say our child passed despite the old codger class. Luckily he retired before my youngest was supposed to have him. I would have screamed if I had to go through him a third time. He had already failed an older child twice.

And the principals are part of administration and will not be striking with the teachers.

how can they stop teaching and getting paid

That satisfactory answer would be dependent on receiving a return call/e-mail.

I'm not exactly sure how you can know that the union is the side that is being unreasonable, as the public has not been privvy to the details of the negotiations, but you can continue to believe what you like.

Morgan actually it is very easy to tell which side is being unreasonable, The board wants to release the proposals to the public, BUT the teachers union will not release anything, so Morgan if the teachers are proud of their proposal and have nothing to hide, they should agree to let the public see both offers

It is my understanding that in a similar situation that occured in Brecksville, both sides agreed to release their proposals, but when the union posted theirs, the board filed a lawsuit against them for unfair negotiation practices or something similar. I am sure that the board is well aware of this case. I wouldn't blame the teachers for trying to avoid a potential lawsuit if this has occured in the past.

Morgan I am at work and cannot keep fact checking for you. but to answer your statement (which is backwards )

Coverage by the Sun Star-Courier suggests the teachers’ union was upset that the school district posted copies of the contract offered to the union, and the union’s contract proposals, for public review, in the interest of public transparency.

Morgan you can read the statement here

http://ohio.mediatrackers.org/2012/07/19/after-pay-skyrockets-brecksville-broadview-heights-union-threatens-strike/

The Board offered to post their proposal as a tactic to undermine the union. This is common in these types of negotiations. Both sides are wary of posting their respective proposals, as cases similar to the Brecksville one have happened elsewhere.

If Alex's point is true, then we can assume that both the union and the board are being careful about their actions concerning releasing their proposals. If this is so, I wouldn't trust accusations from either side, as they may purely be tactics to get the opposing side to slip.

Also, I apologize about my incorrect facts. Thank you for checking that for me.

well alex and morgan all the union has to do is call the boards bluff and allow the proposals to be released and Alex the union and teachers have become very undermined in the public eyes
earlier when the teachers union started their website they stated "we will be proud when we are allowed to release our proposal" but not the board has asked to show them that statement vanished off the site and the union is silent

Neither the union or the board truly want their proposals released, James. I work as a lawyer, and can assure you that the opinions of residents in a very conservative town such as Strongsville are not of extreme importance. Although positive public opinion can be crucial in certain cases, not releasing the proposal will have no effect on the already negative view that Strongsville residents have of teachers/unions. This move actually benefits both the board and the union, and allows them to negotiate without the input of an uninformed public.
Deleting the website banner is a natural move, as it would have been ridiculous to keep it up since the union has decided not to release the proposal.

Alex if you are a lawyer then you should be able to see that "digging your heels" in for a sustained strike in such a "very conservative town such as Strongsville" is a very bad move on the part of the teachers union
The teachers can only muster a very small number of supporters outside their own families

At a certain point, James, a strike can seem like the only option. This contract has been negotiated on for quite some time, with little if any progress. Going on strike was not their first option, it was a last resort. Although I do not necessarily agree that it was an excellent decision, I can certainly see why the union made it.
I, for one, know quite a few supporters of the union that have no connection to the school system. I know they are still in the minority, but there might be more supporters than you think.

Alex there will be a few diehard union supporters out there to show union support BUT in this strike there will be a lot of union members staying at home eating popcorn. when the strike starts as a union member I myself will not post anything on this site until the strike ends just to support the belief in unions but not the current dispute

I suppose we will see. Although I disagree with you for the most part, I appreciate your comments as I find that they are well-argued.

alex nothing wrong with agreeing to disagree ,, I can see this from both sides union and taxpayer and this time I take the taxpayers

the teachers have had a pay freeze for years, and the board is proposing a lifetime pay freeze. how are the teachers the bullies?

Christopher Born - In doing some research the teachers "freeze" was actually only one aspect of increased pay. My understanding is that the "stepped" pay increases, or the increases that automatic for tenure were froze. Merit increases were still in place. It is my understanding that many schools (and most if not all private schools) have long since gotten rid of the stepped increases that really seem to be in place simply for showing up.

Christopher -
Should you be commenting on the Patch during school hours???

Christopher-
How can a 2-4 year contract cover eternity?
Just like that pick up. That was in a previous contract. This is a new contract - nothing is forever, just for the life of each contract. Now who is bullying - I think the teachers bullying the public and the kids. Grow up.

Christopher -
Look at the links provided for teacher salaries - do you see any increase for year to year?
When I hear a pay freeze - that means to me, the salary wold not change, but theachers play this game with words.

Christopher-
Look at that copy of the proposal in your hot little hand.
Do you see these 3 little words you wrote above, exactly written
" lifetime pay freeze"

Quit lying.

The article said they were packing up "their personal belongings", not their classrooms. That was the editor's choice of words to get people to read the article and a very poor one at that.

Boom!

Senior are you UAW or IBT

IBT retired

yep I had you pegged for an old teamster hard-head (I mean that in the nicest way)

Leigh try to keep up Morgan was incorrect again
her statement (which was backwards )

Coverage by the Sun Star-Courier suggests the teachers’ union was upset that the school district posted copies of the contract offered to the union, and the union’s contract proposals, for public review, in the interest of public transparency.

http://ohio.mediatrackers.org/2012/07/19/after-pay-skyrockets-brecksville-broadview-heights-union-threatens-strike/

I can see why a lot of people decide to become teachers for the money, then.

Oh, wait. They don't.

I apologize if you are upset by the way government jobs work, but this will not be drastically changed as a result of these negotiations. Also, the 150 senior teachers are a small percentage of the entire teaching staff that the school system employs. Most of the teachers don't make nearly that amount.

I apologize if I sound angry or sarcastic.

Alex nope Ive got my big boy pants on the sarcasm is always welcomed and actually the 150 is the majority of the FULL TIME teachers employed in strongsville
alex just remember like all other union you must "pay your dues" to get to top scale and in this case it is years of service because there is yet another 100 teachers one step away from top scale (75k area)

Leigh most senior teachers make 80K per year plus a hidden 8k pension pickup (that means the teachers are getting their salary plus getting another check to pay for their portion of the retirement payment) this has been hidden income for years
the board wants to bring this income to the front by adding it to their main salary and letting them pay the payment themselves, the problem is that without even gaining even 1 penny the senior teachers would now make 88k per year which puts them to the highest end of the list its a PR nightmare if the hidden pension pickup pickup gets added

I would like to know where you got that number because that is before taxes and benefits.

James, what is your definition of a "senior" teacher?

Alex teachers have many levels teaching ,schooling and years of service to be the top rung of the pay scale
right now there are over 150 of the teachers making between 79k and 80k per year

here check yourself http://www.buckeyeinstitute.org/teacher-salary

enter strongsville into school district
enter 2011 into year
and enter hi to low into order by
now look at column marked days worked and scroll past all those marked in the 200s (administrators) but look at all the ones at 184 days (senior teachers)

$80,000 is the maximum a teacher can make, and the board wants to lower that even more. In order to reach that cap a teacher needs a masters degree in one or more subjects. Anything above the $80,869 is an administrator and isn't part or the union. And about the pension, it isn't as much as you would believe. An old math teacher of mine is on pension but he has to have a job as a substitute in order to "not live off of cat food." This teacher came to school the day after he got kidnapped from his house and still had the same clothes on and cuts from the kidnappers holding a knife to his throat.

Leigh in the real world (private sector) you are given your salary and you have social security deducted and then you deduct money for your 401 k

so lets say your private sector salary is 80k per year
subtract 3500.00 for social security
subtract 5100.00 for your 401k
your salary after these two deductions is now $ 71,4000.00

now the strongsville teachers that make the same 80k
has the taxpayers pay the 8600.00 payment for them
subtract 0
their salary after the same type of deductions is still 80,000.00

another new teachers thread with 41 new posts lol whats wrong james a slow night at work

yep lines down this is much more entertaining

James, thanks for making points, I find this very educational for myself. Now for City School employees, which happens to include teachers, there are about 2 or 3 extra deductions to their paycheck. It's true that City School employees have one of the best benefit plans, but that is all deducted from their paycheck. Sorry but the name of the other deduction escapes my memory at this moment, but I recall how it was close to matching the all of the other deductions.

Gosh Myron,I have a nephew @ SHS too & was told almost verbatim what you just stated the kids are being told by teachers-so I can confirm that what you stated is what kids are being told. I know the BOE put out a "fact sheet" but it's not totally clear-If kids get called in absent during the strike because parents don't feel comfortable w/substitutes,is THAT an excused absence? Can the teachers hold/freeze the kids grades & not count any work done w/substitutes? The grading period ends before Spring Break & this will not give kids struggling a chance to bring up their grades if they are denied days or weeks worth of grades.

lyn looks more like a high school kid not very well informed but polite
im about 125 posts behind i have been reading them off my emails because of the post delete and runaway types

I went to brecksville patch 2012 and read some of those postings, some (many) of those posters were very childish and contained very little information, no facts, no figures ,and no links just name calling and finger pointing

Jean-
My thought exactly -
He probably thought by saying he's an attorney that it would hold some authority, yet it just looked plain ignorant and like someone who shouldn't have even been admitted to law school to begin with.
Maybe it was a teacher as they are so far removed from reality.

These duck call guys on Jimmy are a "hoot"

jean -
there have been an unbelievable amount of posts - my phone keeps dinging all day
I think the teachers are starting to panic

It got really nasty. And some of the people had some really off the wall comments. And I would cringe if one would agree with me and start including me in there little group of kooks.

james was on a roll
this was a good point

Leigh in the real world (private sector) you are given your salary and you have social security deducted and then you deduct money for your 401 k

so lets say your private sector salary is 80k per year
subtract 3500.00 for social security
subtract 5100.00 for your 401k
your salary after these two deductions is now $ 71,4000.00

now the strongsville teachers that make the same 80k
has the taxpayers pay the 8600.00 payment for them
subtract 0
their salary after the same type of deductions is still 80,000.00

wow larry its good to see such solid facts first thin in the morning ....."scabs"......"strike breaking."......"without proper background checks"........"jack booted thugs"....."cost much higher"......"saber rattling"..............all that is missing was child molesters, but in the show of larry's true journalism talent he did throw in (allegedly)

Hey Larry -
Nice - can't contribute anything to the discussion but garbage like trying to scare the kids and parents by pointing to 7 year old articles.
Why not tell people they should stay away from all catholic churches since a few were bad?
At least new background system checks at Huffmaster have been in place for years on these security people and subs. So, your kids are in better hands with the unknown replacements than the unknown priest that might have been transferred around.
And with your logic, kids should fear every teacher that they had if they were new.
You people make me sick with the stuff you tell these kids.

Larry I did actually do a search on Alternative Workforce, Inc and on Huffmaster ...and did not find any bad reviews .... only when i added the word strikebreakers did the accusations fly

Sure larry. And what company does the union employ to get it's thug stand ins during the strike to literally be paid to yell and attempt to intimidate workers going in to do a job....a job the teachers walked away from?

Lyn so we have heard from first time poster " larry" this morning .....when do you think "curly" and "mo" will appear

curly on Thursday
mo on Friday
shemp on Saturday

sunday - brother Darryl
monday - other brother Darryl

You HEARD they will hire subs who fail a background test?
Wonder who was spreading THAT rumor!
Do you THINK it was the teachers who are trying to put fear in the kids, you know, those innocent victims in all this that those lowlife teachers should care about and seem to be using as pawns now?

There is a Q&A doc on strongnet that is one of the questions http://www.strongnet.org/cms/lib6/OH01000884/Centricity/Domain/1/Questions%20and%20Answers.pdf

Rich valid questions but background checks today find every tiny infraction ever commited from a "lawn job" when you were 16 to the nasty comment left on the patch so im sure they know who they are hiring, and with 1000s of laid off teachers to choose from

If you have ever looked anyone up online, like through whitepages.com, you'll see it might take you to peoplesearch.com sometimes, where if you keep clicking on view more, it takes you to a page where you can subscribe to a service that does background reports, including national criminal check and sex offender check.. Never done it. And you have to pay for this. Don't know if there is a free service.
I do think you can go into the county records for that info and check rather easily. But that would just give for each county.

Tracy-
When I called the superintendent's office, he said to watch for info online that would give correct info and explain several things related to this matter. This must be it.
I think it is important to repeat this on some other articles, so, if you don't mind, I'll do just that.

Lyn Please do I got an email this am that it was up, so wanted to share

Rich, you do know that is the teachers spreading their propaganda, right?

I think I read that they were warned that they were expected to be at work and if they did not show up for work, they would be fired - only the strikers would not be fired.
I guess like anyone who is a no show - terminated.

standing in front of board members house holding a tombstone

From the BOE
Q: Why is the board of education hiring a security firm to help out
during the strike?
The security firm will help to provide a safe environment for the students
and staff during the strike. The security firm will also assist the SCS to find
qualified substitute teachers to educate students during the strike.
Q: Will the guards be armed?
No. The guards will not be armed in any way. They will not carry weapons
of any kind. Several of the guards will be videotaping the picket lines to
document any problems that might occur. Guards will be equipped with
radios for communication purposes.

WOW, Rich - nothing like trying to leave some other impression
Did you see what Tracy put as the whole sentence
"will be videotaping the picket lines to document any problems that might occur."
This is no news to them anyhow, those folks who dig up 7 year old articles- they have known what will happen, yet wait and see how astonished and insulted they are.

Jeff you must remember that the school board has offered to make both proposals public............. and the union has refused..............so by law they cannot release anything ... so that in its self shows which side has something to hide

Jeff-
And it really doesn't matter if someone thinks the teachers deserve more, simply because the district doesn't have the money to give them. So, to keep pushing for something that isn't there is useless. In fact, it might come down to they should have to take cuts - be it pay or benefits or retirement contribution. Isn't that how any business does it? Its that, or they close down, and the schools won't close.

Its a matter of simple math - which you would think a teacher would understand, especially with all those advanced degrees

lyn - I don't disagree. A budget is a budget and as I think you stated previously that even if they wanted to give the teachers more they couldn't. I tried to be open to the teachers but their actions have led me to lean towards the BOE because of their actions over the past week or so. What I've heard being done and seen posted on here... even if only half or a quarter of it is true is reprehensible. When teachers have the opportunity to work in the summer, pay little if nothing at all for healthcare (mine doubled from 2012 to 2013) and have guarantees that many of us will never have – makes it very difficult to support them. If they were grateful for what they are afforded and were not using the kids (which again I think is the most disgusting act) as pawns, I would be more open to listening. Unfortunately I will certainly think 2x, 3x, 4x the next time a levy comes and it’s unfortunate because in the end the students are the ones who are and will suffer because of all this. Picketing at the school is one thing but going to someone’s home only reinforces the negative attitude I have towards the teachers and even more so the Union.

Jeff-
I agree.
Point taken - just trying to clarify

Jeff-
You mentioned healthcare - that they get for even those months they are not working. Since they are not working for 2+ months, shouldn't that TOTAL premium be paid by them? Why should any part of the premium be paid for by the district when they are not working? You don't work, you get no benefits .

Jeff-
I can no longer provide links to any Patch articles - my comments are immediately deleted if they contain one.
That being said,...
if you type: teachers launch website
in the search box it will help get you to the article where you can click on these 2 items in blue (hyperlinks) that are full of garbage.

But, check out the Fe. 10 post on FB where that person, probably Tracy, said how proud they are of their contract and something about being confident the public would agree, but doesn't think the BOE can say the same thing - what a lying hypocrite.

Another part of that is-
Do we want those same teachers who have behaved so poorly and made pawns of the kids, back in the classroom?
I really would not want to reward them with having a job waiting for them.
How many employers would tolerate anywhere near their behavior? Not only is it disrespectful, but carries over to how one performs on the job.
And these people have a job, not a profession - they are not professionals by any definition of the word.

Dave, you seem to be perfectly fine with allowing these scabs to teach for the next three months. Please tell me how you think these "qualified" subs are going to prepare AP students for their exams. I would love to know.

Well Morgan come monday it will no longer be any of your business........ since you will be out on the sidewalk with the rest of the teachers

Actually, no, I will not be out picketing with the teachers. I will be in the classroom with the rest of the 2013 senior class of Strongsville High attempting to comprehend how the argumentive skills of adults probably 30 years my senior could be so emotion-driven and immature.

Therefore, it is very much my business and I would love an answer. How are we going to be prepared for our AP exams?

Good job.
Between you and Tracy now the public have gotten both links that are very important to giving us the FACTS.

that is a better one, it breaks down between teachers and other staff

Could not agree more with you David!!! 100% on spot!!!

I am at work right now talking into my phone

Did you ever think that perhaps the people posting are housewives (or housedads). Maybe they are out of work like so many other Americans. Maybe they ARE at work, and, like myself, can actually take a couple minutes to post a quick comment at lunch or on one of their breaks. Aside from all that, who are you to even ask in the first place...why don't you just mind your own business and not worry about what "posters" do to support themselves. I'm very sorry that you have a job where you are expected to work every minute of your entire shift...must really suck to be you.

A man who can multitask! Not solely directed at you, by the way. Just curious- much time/effort spent here expressing thoughts and bantering back and forth incessantly... carry on.

clevegal you the 4th person trying to float that false statement tonite about 25-30 years needed for top scale I just stopped at G

COOK, TOBEY C. $80,869.00 15 years
COYER, ROBIN A. $79,643.00 14 years
FRINDT, ROCHELLE L. $78,128.00 9 years
GABA, LAURA E. $78,128.00 11 years

these figures do not include the hidden $8600.00 pension pickup the city has been paying the teachers for years

huh you dropped your propaganda from 20+ down to 9+ and to your other talking point "Isn't teaching our children one of the most important and valuable resources we have as a community"
, actually we do not need teachers we can,have and will teach our own children

CleveGal: You seem to be a teacher or someone who is very closely connected with one. You present yourself as being extremely pompous with your comment, "you're probably some bitter, nasty person with no education who hates anyone making over minimum wage". So, what amount is enough for teachers to be paid? Should teachers all make "six figures" like the non-degreed friends you speak of. Hell, maybe everyone should make six figures. Let's just raise minimum wage to $40 an hour...that will solve all the problems. Fact is, Strongsville teachers make a very nice wage and have a really nice benefits package to go along with that wage. We are not saying they should make less, just simply that it is FAIR...more than fair when you compare it to many surronding communities, and there comes a time when the public, myself included, says enough is enough. We just CANNOT afford anymore. I'm repulsed by your comment about education...I do not have a college degee, however, I am a certified computer professional, and as far as I'm concerned...pretty damn intelligent. Anytime you want to challenge me to an IQ test I'm game. College degrees DO NOT necessarily equate to intelligence; I have met plenty of not so bright college graduates in my lifetime and I do not intend that to be a knock on college educated people, just a fact.

she ran out of stories and ran away

such a shame I was looking forward to more witless comments

shhhh you cannot use teachers and performance in the same comment

hey clevegal do you know Mike Summers ..who is the owner of Summers Rubber Company

Yes James, you should homeschool if at all possible. If you don't want your child exposed to the liberal agenda that is being filtering down from Dept of Education to the states to the local school districts and then right into your kid...absolutely, home schooling is the way to go. Our kids our intentionally being stupified. How can we spend all this money on education, yet, the nation as a whole is falling further and further behind the rest of the world in education. What other explanation can there be that we spend more now than ever before educating our children, yet they are not being educated as well as they once were when we spent far less per child.

Mw I was just about to remind clevegirl (teacher) that teaching is a public convenience and with private ,charter and home schooling on the rise public schools are heading down the same path as street sweepers, one day no longer needed

James: good analogy. Not comparing them equally but yes, trash collectors for instance, once upon a time, were all employed by cities. And, now, almost all cities contract it out to companies (Strongsville included) because the free market does the same thing so much more efficiently and for far less cost. The same could and should happen with teachers. Get rid of the BS bureacracy and let the free market dictate wages, performance, and how our kids get educated...I guarantee our kids would benefit from this and the teachers that are superior performers would benefit too! A win-win for everyone while at the same time weeding out the non-performers.

Per Debbie's article from Feb. 26 -
"meeting is scheduled for 9 a.m. Saturday at a federal mediator's office in Independence."

But I would stay away from there.
Might get ugly.
Last summer when Brecksville was going through this, the teachers congregated outside at the same location.

No it wasn't. Those were the OGT tests that sophomores take. Passing them is required for graduation. The AP Tests are taken at another site that is not the school, and is completely optional. However, a high score the test is required to earn college credit for Advanced Placement classes.

Morgan-
Thank you for clarifying.